The CycleChat Large SUV Owners Club thread

[mustang1]

If you ever get to drive a 730kg Lotus Elise on hardpacked snow, you'd soon discover the problems associated with very little weight, pulling away and traction was okay, stopping, especially downhill was not fun. An under pant damaging experience.

... or a 500kg Caterham 7 on a wet race track.

 

[Venod]

That absolutely sounds like it had the wrong tyres on rather than an issue with the weight. The logical extension of your argument is that it would be impossible to ride a bike in the snow, and that an articulated lorry is the perfect vehicle for the snow.

This is probably correct.

I have owned MK1 and MK2 Freelander's which were very good in the snow, I have also owned a Citreon 2CV very light car very narrow tyres, it was brilliant in the snow and a nice simple car to work on.

 

[Drago]

I think the argument has its limits. As aforementioned by my good self, mocern SUVs have chassis and stability systems to safely manage their bulk that normies don't have, and this does indeed usually translate to more effective btaking and better directional ability in the snow. But thats not an excuse to take the pith though, because get it wrong itll still hurt.

 

[Richard A Thackeray]

I have also owned a Citreon 2CV very light car very narrow tyres, it was brilliant in the snow and a nice simple car to work on.

My mother used to own a 'R' (97?) Corsa
For a while, one winter it was at out house
Skinny tyres (145 section?) & not a lot of weight (or torque) made it great in fresh snow

I think the argument has its limits. As aforementioned by my good self, mocern SUVs have chassis and stability systems to safely manage their bulk that normies don't have, and this does indeed usually translate to more effective btaking and better directional ability in the snow.
But thats not an excuse to take the pith though, because get it wrong itll still hurt.

WIth appropriate tyres & careful driving
As Scottie said;

In his excellent book; 'The Land Rover Experience, Tom Sheppard goes over it in detail
Whilst not using Scotties phrasing, it's close to it!

 

[Drago]

I actually have Tim Sheppards book. The problem there is that it was written in 1993 when none of these things existed. The Defender and D1 are relatively crude, ponderous things, and their, mass and architecture to indeed put them at some disadvantage when stopping (not necessarily when steering). However, the state of the art has moved on greatly in 3 decades and such vehicles now have the benefit of systems that were not available then. What may have had a grain of truth 3 decades ago is no longer valid.

A car that can selectively drive individual wheels, can selectively brake individual wheels, can alter steering weight on the fly, and that can even (on some really modern tin like the current XC90) actively alter damping and spring rates on individual corners of the vehicle stop and corner in the snow better than one that cannot do those things. There is no two ways about it. Even on my old bucket, the stability systems are such that it is almost impossible to overturn an XC90, wet or dry - sadly not true of, say, a Corsa or Micra.

I live next to a forest, and when it snows plenty of cars end up in ditches. Theyre always FWD hatchmobiles with the occasional 3 series thrown in for variety. Never a proper SUV. Indeed, my step brother regularly patrols in his Shogun and charges the hapless drivers 50 quid to tow them out. So not only can normie drivers not go round corners in those conditions, but they have to rely on an SUV to rescue them.

But as you say, appropriate tyres and a driver with half a braincell. Even the best equipped SUV won't save the proverbial Roger Ramjet from his own idiocy.

The one inescapable truth is that, according to Thatcham Research, no one has every been recorded in the UK as having died while travelling in an XC90. Not ever. Not wet, dry, rain, snow, wind or ice. Next up is the Audi Q7, which has half a dozen model years for which the same is true. Pretty sure they're both large SUV's

 

[Richard A Thackeray]

@Drago
Yes, as good as Tom Sheppard is, & he's not far behind Ranulph Fiennes the ranks of UK explorers, he could only go on the technology available at that time
Then again, most 4x4/SUVs were of the same mechanical limitations (the P38 RR was available, & covered in that book)

There were later editions printed, that covered the L322 RR ('series 3', to me)

 

[Drago]

The be fair to the illustrious Mr Sheppard, while I have never been up Darien's Gap (paging @Fnaar !) I was a police Class 1 driver. As such have hammered a P38 rangie V8 in the wet, dry, wind and indeed snow, fully laden and flat out (indicated 135 but I think 125 is probably nearer the truth) on public roads, speeds and conditions that he has never experienced. With that in mind I have just a little authority on the matter myself, certainly on their behaviour at the extremes of performance.

Useless fact. Even at early 2000's prices the P38's on the fleet used to guzzle their own value in fuel every year.

 

[Gillstay]

The be fair to the illustrious Mr Sheppard, while I have never been up Darien's Gap (paging @Fnaar !) I was a police Class 1 driver. As such have hammered a P38 rangie V8 in the wet, dry, wind and indeed snow, fully laden and flat out (indicated 135 but I think 125 is probably nearer the truth) on public roads, speeds and conditions that he has never experienced. With that in mind I have just a little authority on the matter myself, certainly on their behaviour at the extremes of performance.

Useless fact. Even at early 2000's prices the P38's on the fleet used to guzzle their own value in fuel every year.

Between the P38's and the V8 ambulances Surrey had, the carbon footprint must have been quite outstanding.

 

[KneesUp]

The one inescapable truth is that, according to Thatcham Research, no one has every been recorded in the UK as having died while travelling in an XC90. Not ever. Not wet, dry, rain, snow, wind or ice. Next up is the Audi Q7, which has half a dozen model years for which the same is true. Pretty sure they're both large SUV's

And what is the data for the Peel P50 (not an SUV)? ;-)

 

[swansonj]

...., no one has every been recorded in the UK as having died while travelling in an XC90. Not ever. Not wet, dry, rain, snow, wind or ice. Next up is the Audi Q7, which has half a dozen model years for which the same is true. Pretty sure they're both large SUV's

Do you happen to have the data on how many people, and perhaps specifically pedestrians and cyclists, have been killed by an XC90 or Q7?

 

[Drago]

Im quite liking this...

https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/road-tests/356804/new-ford-bronco-2022-review-pictures

If nothing else its a nice styling job, inspired by themoriginal 60's Bronco. Much better looking than many other retro styled cars like the MINI.

 

[Bonefish Blues]

Wonder if OJ Simpson has ordered one?

 

[Drago]

The long range fuel tank option is called "The OJ" in his honour.

 

[Drago]

Do you happen to have the data on how many people, and perhaps specifically pedestrians and cyclists, have been killed by an XC90 or Q7?

Less than by Corsas and Fiestas if one takes the NCAP vulnerable road user ratings as a measure.

 

[KneesUp]

Less than by Corsas and Fiestas if one takes the NCAP vulnerable road user ratings as a measure.

Rather than the actual figures. I guess the key one would be deaths per vehicle anyway.