keithmac
Guru
They are in their own category of cool!, lovely machine there.
The CycleChat Large SUV Owners Club thread
- Thread starter Drago
- Start date
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They are in their own category of cool!, lovely machine there.
Colin Grigson
Bass guitarist - Bad News
- Location
- Slovakia
Thanks Keith, they have an almost cult like following, and having owned one, I actually get it. It was the only car I’ve had that was perfect off-road, around town and on long motorway trips - faultless.
Hicky
Guru
I drove one of these previously however it had been maintained by the LAD and thrashed by hundreds of privates in a very hot and dusty land. Probably not a fair review. I didn’t like it but then again the v8 snatch wasn't a bag of fun. 🤣
Clearly yours is a different beast. I see one often in Mcr city centre. It always draws glances.
GilesM
Legendary Member
- Location
- East Lothian
I had an XC90 as a rent a car when working in Hamburg recently, it's certainly big and very comfy inside and all very competent, but not really for me, maybe I still have the image of 1970 three box Volvos in my head with the lights stuck on all of the time, they certainly were not cool.
GilesM
Legendary Member
- Location
- East Lothian
If you ever get to drive a 730kg Lotus Elise on hardpacked snow, you'd soon discover the problems associated with very little weight, pulling away and traction was okay, stopping, especially downhill was not fun. An under pant damaging experience.
KneesUp
Guru
That absolutely sounds like it had the wrong tyres on rather than an issue with the weight. The logical extension of your argument is that it would be impossible to ride a bike in the snow, and that an articulated lorry is the perfect vehicle for the snow.
GilesM
Legendary Member
- Location
- East Lothian
It definitely had the wrong tyres on, but the very light weight is a real problem when stopping (or trying to stop), the tyres just don't have the pressure on them to dig in to the snow, if you compare the Elise to a normal weight rear wheel drive car with similar summer tyres in the snow (for example a BMW 3 series), you would discover the Lotus can get moving much more easily than the BMW, but I can assure you that the stopping is considerably worse, but don't take my word for it, have a go, but not near me or with my Elise it stays inside the garage when the roads are white.
I think riding a bike down hill on hard packed snow is close to impossible, unless you've got studded tyres.
Gillstay
Über Member
That is because the tyres are wide. If you had thin tyres on the Elise it would be fine. We challenged a guy in a landrover in deep snow and got further than he did, we were in a lancia Fulvia. Surprised us both.
Bonefish Blues
Banging donk
- Location
- 52 Festive Road
185/55 R15s at the front & 205/50 R16s at the rear (on OE 5-spokes) aren't exactly bloated mind.
OP
OP
Drago
Legendary Member
- Location
- Suburban Poshshire
Standard Defender type Land rovers are not the best in the snow. Far better than a saloon car, but as fourbies go not brilliant. The drivetrain is so badly balanced that the torque delivery to different wheels differs wildly as standard. Something like a Subaru Forester, like for like with tyres, is one of the best in the snow because the asymmetric drivetrain pumps out perfectly equal torque to each side of the car.
GilesM
Legendary Member
- Location
- East Lothian
Again, the getting going is no problem in the Elise, it's the stopping, 175 on the front as standard for the K Series powered Elise S2 are not exactly wide, it's also partly due to the suspension setup and the rigidity of the chassis. Of course the tyres do make a huge impact, we have winter boots on my better half's Mini Roadster, as long as the snow is not too deep (ground clearance is not huge) then it seems to get through happily and stops when required, but still no where near as good as the Evoque, press the snow and ice button, and it seems to just go through anything, a few years ago we had the pleasure of driving through about 10 inches of unpisted snow of the Dukes Pass, obviously we failed to see the road closed sign, but it was a lot of fun, and the hill descent control is quite amazing.
fossyant
Ride It Like You Stole It!
- Location
- South Manchester
I like Skol
A Minging Manc...
- Location
- Sunny Ashton-under-Lyne
By far the biggest problem (if it can be called that) is the drivers, who often think 'it's a Landrover, it can go anywhere' despite themselves having zero driving ability or awareness of reality.How dare you@I like Skol come and put him right !
Contrary to Drago's guff and nonsense about the Defender drivetrain there is nothing wrong with it for what it is. It is neither unbalanced or wildly unstable, for a basic, open drivetrain. In the hands of a competent driver it can do very well in the snow.
I tend to head out in my wife's 2wd car when it snows. It is much more comfortable sitting in the leather heated seats of her Audi than in my draughty Landrover when stuck in endless queues of of floundering cars/drivers everytime half an inch of the white stuff falls.
OP
OP
Drago
Legendary Member
- Location
- Suburban Poshshire
The Defender drivetrain is excellent. No guff.
Its just that of the breed its one of the less capable ones in the snow. Theyre not unstable as you suggest I alluded (and actually did not) - far from it, theyre just not optimum for those conditions.
By unbalanced I mean symply mean different length driveshafts to every single wheel - in a powerful FWD car this starts to show up as torque steer. On a fourbie it means it is difficult to get an exactly balanced level of force to each corner of the car, so in conditions where finesse of balamce and grip is required you cant get optimum traction without resorting to electronics, something the defender lacks.
Of course, in mud, climbing, etc, where brute force traction is required thats not a consideration, but brute force and snow just have you digging yourself in.
Before I moved into SAR I was in our local 4x4 Response group, and on like for like tyres the two Foresters in the group ate everything in the snow. We did some digging, and the answer is the asymmetric drivetrain simply makes it particularly well suited to those sort of conditions, is all. Equal power to the wheels on each side, equal inetial forces through equal length driveshafts, none of this is really very surprising once one mulls the desiable characteristics for laying down power on a surface that alternates between unstable and low friction.
I'm sure youre Google works as well as mine if you wanted to read up on it.
In fact, if you want to hear guff then listen to people prattling on about how all conquering the series and defender are off road. They are very good, but theyre not peerless. The last pay and play I did at Whaddon before I sold my pickup one of the lads with a tricked out defender was giving it the large along these lines and making snidey comments about a standard land Cruiser that was present. Yet despite his best efforts to shake it off the Bruiser went everywhere the the expensively modded defender did, and made said defender driver look a bit silly.
Land Rover - great bits of kit, but they still put their trousers on one leg at a time. Sadly, Mrs D hates them, and ive been banned from owning any more of them, not even a Rangie CSK
Something to do with spending more time on the driveway than with her.
Its just that of the breed its one of the less capable ones in the snow. Theyre not unstable as you suggest I alluded (and actually did not) - far from it, theyre just not optimum for those conditions.
By unbalanced I mean symply mean different length driveshafts to every single wheel - in a powerful FWD car this starts to show up as torque steer. On a fourbie it means it is difficult to get an exactly balanced level of force to each corner of the car, so in conditions where finesse of balamce and grip is required you cant get optimum traction without resorting to electronics, something the defender lacks.
Of course, in mud, climbing, etc, where brute force traction is required thats not a consideration, but brute force and snow just have you digging yourself in.
Before I moved into SAR I was in our local 4x4 Response group, and on like for like tyres the two Foresters in the group ate everything in the snow. We did some digging, and the answer is the asymmetric drivetrain simply makes it particularly well suited to those sort of conditions, is all. Equal power to the wheels on each side, equal inetial forces through equal length driveshafts, none of this is really very surprising once one mulls the desiable characteristics for laying down power on a surface that alternates between unstable and low friction.
I'm sure youre Google works as well as mine if you wanted to read up on it.
In fact, if you want to hear guff then listen to people prattling on about how all conquering the series and defender are off road. They are very good, but theyre not peerless. The last pay and play I did at Whaddon before I sold my pickup one of the lads with a tricked out defender was giving it the large along these lines and making snidey comments about a standard land Cruiser that was present. Yet despite his best efforts to shake it off the Bruiser went everywhere the the expensively modded defender did, and made said defender driver look a bit silly.
Land Rover - great bits of kit, but they still put their trousers on one leg at a time. Sadly, Mrs D hates them, and ive been banned from owning any more of them, not even a Rangie CSK
Something to do with spending more time on the driveway than with her.
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I like Skol
A Minging Manc...
- Location
- Sunny Ashton-under-Lyne
I'm tired, I work 12hr days and I really can't be bothered writing a 4 page technical essay explaining what is wrong about what you are saying here Drago, but with just a little internet research you could work it out for yourself. Start with that Landrover torque steer nonsense.....The Defender drivetrain is excellent. No guff.
Its just that of the breed its one of the less capable ones in the snow. Theyre not unstable as you suggest I alluded (and actually did not) - far from it, theyre just not optimum for those conditions.
By unbalanced I mean symply mean different length driveshafts to every single wheel - in a powerful FWD car this starts to show up as torque steer. On a fourbie it means it is difficult to get an exactly balanced level of force to each corner of the car, so in conditions where finesse of balamce and grip is required you cant get optimum traction without resorting to electronics, something the defender lacks.
Of course, in mud, climbing, etc, where brute force traction is required thats not a consideration, but brute force and snow just have you digging yourself in.
Before I moved into SAR I was in our local 4x4 Response group, and on like for like tyres the two Foresters in the group ate everything in the snow. We did some digging, and the answer is the asymmetric drivetrain simply makes it particularly well suited to those sort of conditions, is all. Equal power to the wheels on each side, equal inetial forces through equal length driveshafts, none of this is really very surprising once one mulls the desiable characteristics for laying down power on a surface that alternates between unstable and low friction.
I'm sure youre Google works as well as mine if you wanted to read up on it.
In fact, if you want to hear guff then listen to people prattling on about how all conquering the series and defender are off road. They are very good, but theyre not peerless. The last pay and play I did at Whaddon before I sold my pickup one of the lads with a tricked out defender was giving it the large along these lines and making snidey comments about a standard land Cruiser that was present. Yet despite his best efforts to shake it off the Bruiser went everywhere the the expensively modded defender did, and made said defender driver look a bit silly.
Land Rover - great bits of kit, but they still put their trousers on one leg at a time. Sadly, Mrs D hates them, and ive been banned from owning any more of them, not even a Rangie CSK
Ok, unstable is maybe not the right word due to its other connotations, I was just trying to summarise your erroneous and inaccurate description of the Defender drivetrain.
