Today... I became a racist.

[buggi]

i'm afraid what you said was racist, would you have said this to a white person?

No... why would i say that to a white person??? the odds are they wouldn't have learned to drive in India?


[QUOTE 1149201"]
Why? All he done is beep at you, hardly an excuse to get abusive like you did.
[/quote]
It was not a small beep, it was a big beep and then he swerved into the next lane to make a point... and got no where coz the lights were on red. He was being an peanut, that's why i got abusive.

I must admit, I don't entirely understand why Buggi's comment was racist. Yes she should have kept better control of her temper. We all flair up from time to time, but from my understanding, the gentleman looked Indian, possibly he sounded Indian, therefore, it is certainly possible that he did learn to drive in India.

The only thing that Buggi is abusing is this chaps driving skills, not his character, race, religion etc.

Am I missing something?

no you're not missing anything. i've decided i wasn't being racist but, as said, being "stereotypical" as i don't hate indians, and was only angry because of his attitude that i shouldn't be in his way, so i was hurling the worse abuse i could possibly think of.

racist defined:-

racism |ˈrāˌsizəm|
noun
the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race, esp. so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races.
• prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on such a belief : a program to combat racism.


how were the comments not racist? buggi thought he / she was superior at that moment in time. i maintain that if the driver was white the comments would not have been made.

if he was pakistani and not indian, he would have been extremely infuriated and felt the abuse even more insulting (given the historical hatred between the 2 countries). how do you know he wasn't english born and bred?how do you know he didn't learn to drive in birmingham?

The comments were not racist, as i wasn't hurling them because of his colour, i was hurling them because i was angry about his driving, and all comments were aimed at his driving skills, and where he obtained them. I didn't just knock on his window to hurl abuse at him because he was indian. Therefore the comments were stereotypical. I did not think i was superior to him at the time... certainly not because i am white, and not even as a fellow road user. I was following correct highway and cycle code... and he was the one who believed he was superior and that's why he beeped me to get out of the way... because i was taking up "his" road space. I reacted because i believe i have an equal right to be on the road, not a superior one.

He wasn't pakistani, he was indian... hindu in fact. i am capable of telling the difference because i went out with an indian guy for four years (another reason why i know i'm not racist, but instead stereotypical).

Would the same comment have been made if the driver was white? It's racist, pure and simple.

No... what would be the point in asking a white driver if he learned to drive in india? Iwould have just asked him if he ever passed his driving test or some other insult that popped in my head. And I would have called him another appropriate name, like fat c*nt, ginger tw*t, baldy, or whatever other feature that stood out... the list goes on

Why has where he learned to drive got any bearing on how he drives in a country that he has probably lived in longer than you have?

I get annoyed with people who assume that the poor standard of driving amongst those without a white skin colour are due to them learning in less civilised driving cultures. Therefore to judge someone's driving ability on your perception of their country of birth is simply wrong.

Er... coz they are sh*t drivers in India??? and it was an easy comparison to make.


Anyway... what was i gonna tell you all... o i know... had a really pleasant ride through Buggitown tonight. I think they are all scared of the nutter cyclist Must shout my head off more often. Might even join the BNP

 

[snailracer]

I think it is almost impossible to insult somebody without offending entire groups of people, albeit inadvertedly.

If I called someone a "stupid c*nt", that could offend the mentally handicapped and female.

If I called someone a "blind d1ckhead", well that could offend the visually-impaired and male.

Those morality lectures at my school assemblies were right when they said it is better to avoid throwing insults, as it reflects poorly on the person throwing them (sometimes, myself).

 

[slowmotion]

buggi, forget it. Everybody reaches into a quick lexicon of abuse when something bad happens. Loads of the posters on this thread would not think twice about calling someone fat, stupid, a moron, a motorist, blind, coffin-dodger, dumb blonde....you name it. All stereotypes. Why get too hung up about your insult? Plenty of people on CC feel free to suggest that the Scottish, Welsh, English, French etc are lousy drivers or in other ways idiots and inferior. Is that racist? I don't think so, just a general rough and tumble joshing, and a way to insult when the time comes. There is no difference between that and you sounding off against the Indian driver.

As for those who parade their "anti-racist" credentials, perhaps they contribute more to the problem than they solve?

 

[yello]

Plenty of people on CC feel free to suggest that the Scottish, Welsh, English, French etc are lousy drivers or in other ways idiots and inferior. Is that racist?

Well, to be picky, yes it is! You're assigning a quality to a group of people based purely on their nationality. Whether it's offensive or not is down to context, your intention and how it's perceived by an individual. Some people shrug it off, others get wound up.

(Btw, I removed the poster's name because I'm not picking on them, or anyone for that matter. It's a comment I wanted to pick up on)

In relation to buggi's actual comment (sorry buggi, it really shouldn't be dwelled upon! some things are best consigned to the past!), I think people suggesting 'it was just a question' are being disingenuous. It was a remark said in anger and intended to offend. Consider that buggi provided the 'answer' herself too. The entire remark implied that all Indian drivers are crap drivers. If that's not racism pure and simple then I don't know what it is!

But it's hardly something to get too worked up about. Buggi's acknowledged it and is not proud of it. That's spot on imho.

 

[Rob3rt]

buggi, forget it. Everybody reaches into a quick lexicon of abuse when something bad happens. Loads of the posters on this thread would not think twice about calling someone fat, stupid, a moron, a motorist, blind, coffin-dodger, dumb blonde....you name it. All stereotypes. Why get too hung up about your insult? Plenty of people on CC feel free to suggest that the Scottish, Welsh, English, French etc are lousy drivers or in other ways idiots and inferior. Is that racist? I don't think so, just a general rough and tumble joshing, and a way to insult when the time comes. There is no difference between that and you sounding off against the Indian driver.

As for those who parade their "anti-racist" credentials, perhaps they contribute more to the problem than they solve?

Yup, anti-racist ranters seem to be the people who define what statements are offensive and those which arent offensive, rather than those the comments are even aimed at, lol

 

[jonny jeez]

I wouldn’t worry Buggi. The fact that you are aware that your comment was wrong, is testament to your true outlook.



I think you simply fell into a response that was, unfortunately pre-programmed by society at large.



However, these small comments or thoughts can grow into something more dangerous and altogether unattractive. If you keep on encountering badly driven vehicles manned by dark skinned drivers you stand the risk of engendering a racist point of view regarding this particular road or type of driver. This view can eventually spread into other aspects of your life until eventually, you find that it colours your whole outlook and lifestyle choices…at which point you are a racist.



Next time just hit him.

 

[e-rider]

When I used to commute through Norwich city centre I had abuse and near misses almost every day for years - telling one driver what you think of them doesn't solve anything.

Education at driving test level wouldn't work as the RAC claim that most drivers know what to do around cyclists but choose not to do it!

After many years I solved it by not commuting by bicycle any more!

Urban commuting by bicycle just simply isn't very safe if you are sharing the roads with people going to and from work; usually in a bad mood.

 

[BentMikey]

Urban commuting by bicycle just simply isn't very safe if you are sharing the roads with people going to and from work; usually in a bad mood.

Nonsense, it's plenty safe enough by comparison with many other activities we routinely take part in.

 

[RedBike]

Lets face it, when we're on the recieving end of an incident very few of us can honestly say that we wouldn't have muttered a few comments.

It's just unfortunate that when we're acting out of anger we don't always choose are words wisely.

 

[jonny jeez]

Lets face it, when we're on the recieving end of an incident very few of us can honestly say that we wouldn't have muttered a few comments.

It's just unfortunate that when we're acting out of anger we don't always choose are words wisely.

very true, well said

 

[CopperBrompton]

No... why would i say that to a white person??? the odds are they wouldn't have learned to drive in India?

Correct, and the odds are also that someone of Indian ethnicity living in the UK didn't either: that's why it was a racist comment. You acknowledged it as such, but others were suggesting it wasn't and it was them I was disagreeing with.

 

[CopperBrompton]

Nonsense, it's plenty safe enough by comparison with many other activities we routinely take part in.

Indeed, it's safer than making a cup of tea, and much, much safer than walking downstairs.

 

[2Loose]

I took the India comment to be related to the drivers road skills and the percieved congestion and aggressive driving in that country, rather than his ethnicity\country of origin.

So, just out of interest, If the driver was white, would that have made the comment more acceptable?

 

[CopperBrompton]

So, just out of interest, If the driver was white, would that have made the comment more acceptable?

As Buggi freely admits, she wouldn't have made the comment had he been white.

 

[yello]

I took the India comment to be related to the drivers road skills and the percieved congestion and aggressive driving in that country, rather than his ethnicity\country of origin

So this perception, true or false, leads one to believe that all people of that country are aggressive drivers. Isn't that racism?

Let's not hide from the phrase. The first step anyone should take to fight racism is to recognise the racist attitudes they have in themselves. They needn't be ones that motivate one to join the BNP or KKK but they will be there in one form or another.