Update on NV55PVL

[davefb]

maybe the copper knows the bloke?

[edit] err allegedly...

 

[Andrew_P]

I think the Clash should have the last word on this.

 

[Boris Bajic]

Why would it be better for Dan in the "long run"? Would the police black mark him, start harrassing and bullying him like they have allegedly done to Stuart Lawrence? Ok Dan would have to take time to actually write a complaint to the CC of his police force and if they didn't do anything then the IPCC, but aside from this I don't see any down sides. WRT to his Youtube footage claiming to be riding at 47mph in a 30mph he shouldn't worry as there is no way that is going anywhere. Youthful exuberance on his part. The police would actually have to have strong evidence of this which is more than Dan's claims which he has admitted were made up. He might have been foolish to make these claims, but they are false.
More serious is the copper's dereliction of duty and misconduct by trying to avoid investigating suggesting Dan has been harrassing the driver. The copper is in need of reprimanding and re-training. If this fails then booting out of the police. He is obviously a cyclist hater to have adopted such a confrontational response to Dan creating obstacles and hurdles to avoid investigating. Obstuctive and uncooperative would be a charitable description of the officer's handling of this matter.

It may (or may not) be helpful to bear in mind that some behaviours suggest a personality type who may not communicate in a way that is likely to make the other party warm to him or her.

It may also be helpful to reflect that someone who finds it amusing or clever to post on YouTube with absurd speed claims may have an unusual relationship with the truth and may (or may not) live in a Rashomon world where they tell the story they'd like to be able to tell rather than the one they witnessed.

Bicycle Dan's posts about contact with The Police bear no relation to any contact I've had with them. We may be making a lot of assumptions here on the basis of the testimony of a youngster who seems to have a bonnet with a pretty serious bee problem.

I may be very wrong. One way or another, this thread has been hugely entertaining but it smacks slightly of an angry teen-vigilante determined to bring mighty justice to the North East before he goes home for his tea. Whether said tea is eaten on a high chair I cannot conjecture.

The Police have to make judgements about what action to take. It may (or may not) be that behaviours exhibited in dialogue with the police made it easier for them to decide that this was not a matter worth taking further.

 

[glenn forger]

It wouldn't play well for the copper if the driver ended up hurting someone whilst chatting on a mobile, the incredulous mail headline would be:

"Concerned citizen threatened with arrest after reporting driver on mobile who collided with queue of colour-blind ginger orphans!"

 

[benb]

Drago, thanks for clarifying.

Presumably the difference as whether something is a recordable crime or not is laid down in statute? That is, it's not up to the police to decide whether it is a crime or "just" an offence.

I don't think we can or should expect the police to investigate everything - they simply don't have the resources. If the officer had politely explained to Dan that due to limited manpower they would not be taking this further, but perhaps record a note against the vehicle, I think we would have accepted that, albeit with a little disappointment.

So whilst I agree that the police cannot investigate everything, I think they should have better reasons for not doing so than "I can't be bothered". And if resources are so scarce, how has the police officer found time to visit Dan to give him a hard time about it?

 

[Crankarm]

It may (or may not) be helpful to bear in mind that some behaviours suggest a personality type who may not communicate in a way that is likely to make the other party warm to him or her.

It may also be helpful to reflect that someone who finds it amusing or clever to post on YouTube with absurd speed claims may have an unusual relationship with the truth and may (or may not) live in a Rashomon world where they tell the story they'd like to be able to tell rather than the one they witnessed.

Bicycle Dan's posts about contact with The Police bear no relation to any contact I've had with them. We may be making a lot of assumptions here on the basis of the testimony of a youngster who seems to have a bonnet with a pretty serious bee problem.

I may be very wrong. One way or another, this thread has been hugely entertaining but it smacks slightly of an angry teen-vigilante determined to bring mighty justice to the North East before he goes home for his tea. Whether said tea is eaten on a high chair I cannot conjecture.

The Police have to make judgements about what action to take. It may (or may not) be that behaviours exhibited in dialogue with the police made it easier for them to decide that this was not a matter worth taking further.

Yebbut, Dan isn't on trial Boris is he? He may be a total fruitcake with issues for all we know. Are you saying that everyone has to be an exemplary citizen before they report clear wrong doing to the police? Presumably Dan is of good character. He has footage of someone dialing and driving.This is all that is relevant. He has taken the time to report it which is reasonable and presumably he is willing to support it by making a statement. The cops could then investigate, pass to CPS for prosecution, fine and points and/or attendance on a driver awareness course or words of advice. The current response is inadequate so inadequate that it is wrong.

 

[Crankarm]

Just take my word for it (or don't, I shan't lose any sleep). There is a distinction between a crime and a criminal offence, and that difference confers different lawful obligations on an individual officer or their force ad to how the natter is recorded and progressed.

The law and official guidance has been trimmed, nipped and tucked over the years, but essence it has been this way for the last century. If anything, the direction the law has taken is such that there is far more lawful duty imposed on an officer to record crime than there ever had been. In the old days some horrific 'cuffing' or 'batting' took place and even some extremely serious crimes were just brushed aside.

The law is painfully complex and often contradictory. This is one of the most basic premises about the structure of criminal law and its still a mare. This is why solicitors typically spend more time learning their trade than the physicists who design nuclear weapons, and is why they get paid a damn sight more too.

Thank you for taking the time to reply. It's a little clearer although not much ............

 

[Boris Bajic]

Yebbut, Dan isn't on trial Boris is he? He may be a total fruitcake with issues for all we know. Are you saying that everyone has to be an exemplary citizen before they report clear wrong doing to the police? Presumably Dan is of good character. He has footage of someone dialing and driving.This is all that is relevant. He has taken the time to report it which is reasonable and presumably he is willing to support it by making a statement. The cops could then investigate, pass to CPS for prosecution, fine and points and/or attendance on a driver awareness course or words of advice. The current response is inadequate so inadequate that it is wrong.

You're absolutely right about character not being an issue when the Police make a judgement. They must be entirely disinterested and must take as seriously a call from a total fruitcake as they might a call from the Master of the Rolls.

You're also quite right about Dan not being on trial. He is not.

I'm not saying that everyone has to be an exemplary citizen before they report a crime.

I do think there is a case here for making a judgement call. We have only Dan's word to go on.

The response of the Police that Dan writes of is so far from everything I've witnessed in my many years (as the good boy and the bad boy) that I'm not sure whether I find it entirely credible.

The judgement was made not to prosecute the driver.

The decision was made to visit Dan and have a quiet word with him.

I do not find the lack of action against the driver wrong or inadequate. I find it a judgement call that many might disagree with.

 

[Hip Priest]

I think the Clash should have the last word on this.

Riding bikes in the hot sun
I fought the law and the law won (x2)
I needed a camera so I bought one
I fought the law and the law won (x2)

I filmed some bloke on his mobile phone
I thought that he’d get done
But the policeman came round to my home
I fought the law and the law won (x2)

Filming people on the school run
I fought the law and the law won (x2)
Just like those blokes in London
I fought the law and the law won (x2)

I told everyone on the cycling forum
Some said that I should move on
But they’re all tossers so I’m gonna ignore ‘em
I fought the law and the law won (x2)

 

[classic33]

It is not a crime.

You need to understand that crime, offence and non-compliance are different things, and you seem to be using the words 'crime' and 'offence' as if they are interchangeable when they are not.

Most offences are not crimes, as is the case here.

As aforementioned in my previous post, I'd have tried to take this one to court if the witness was willing to support it.

So, using a mobile phone whilst driving is illegal
So, using a mobile phone whilst driving is both illegal & criminal offence(both punishable in the courts) but it is not a crime. Prosecuted for not committing a crime!
That being the case what role would the police play in dealing with the first two, it being illegal & a criminal offence, before it got to court. If its not a crime then. The courts must be packed with people who have committed no crime.

As for the other side of what happenned. I've been in similar circumstances, police not bothered. I ended up, like Dan, being made to feel the guilty party. Officers saying that they were not there & were no where near there at the time in question. One even produced his pocket book, which stated where he was(dealing with a RTC) to prove he wasn't there.

IF, the police were a bit more open maybe more people would be willing to help. But in this case all they seem to have done is alienate another member of society & have them thinking "Is it worth me reporting it, given what happenned last time".
Dan has nothing futher to prove to the police. The police now have to prove to Dan that they can be trusted to do the job for which they are paid.

 

[davefb]

priorities..
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/car-theft-victim-hits-out-1525135

 

[CopperCyclist]

priorities..
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/car-theft-victim-hits-out-1525135

Hmm. when you read the whole story the police don't actually "tell her off for slagging off the thieves". They come round and offer her advice on how she's handling the matter on Facebook and take screen grabs to get everything covered.

For example, perhaps it better if instead of getting people to post to HER Facebook she encourages them to call the police if hey see the car? Screen grabs taken as we now have a nice list of witnesses to go speak to that may have seen the offenders.

And her partner out 'looking' for the car doesn't sit comfortably to me... What's he going to do, conduct his own high speed pursuit and drag them out with a CrookLok in his hand?

Some reading between the lines may be needed here I suggest.

 

[400bhp]

Storm in a teacup? Driving whilst using a phone is not minor - it's dangerous. We should be reporting these, and I say well done Dan for doing so.

Seems like a lot of people on this thread would prefer that the driver injured someone before action was taken.

Yes, storm in a teacup.

 

[Mugshot]

Riding bikes in the hot sun
I fought the law and the law won (x2)
I needed a camera so I bought one
I fought the law and the law won (x2)

I filmed some bloke on his mobile phone
I thought that he’d get done
But the policeman came round to my home
I fought the law and the law won (x2)

Filming people on the school run
I fought the law and the law won (x2)
Just like those blokes in London
I fought the law and the law won (x2)

I told everyone on the cycling forum
Some said that I should move on
But they’re all tossers so I’m gonna ignore ‘em
I fought the law and the law won (x2)

I didn't think it would be possible to improve on that classic (certainly not The Clash version anyway), but you Mr Priest have elavated it to a whole new level

 

[BentMikey]

tl;dr