wheel laced off centre, why

[User65906]

I was looking at the Boardman ADV 8.9 bike,
and the wheels look to be laced off centre,
one side of the rim sloes in and down towards
the hub for about 3/4 of an inch, the other side slopes
in and down towards the rim for about 5/8 of an inch.

This means if the wheel is in the centre of the frame as
it should be, then the weight of the rider is pulling more
to one side of the centre of the wheel.

Is this common, is it because the wheel has a brake dis.,
I had a disk brake bike before and the spokes were dead
centre of the rim.

This is Boardmans own wheel, not a Mavic like used on a lot
of their other bikes.

Should I avoid this bike, will it mean if I get wheel trouble
and need another am tied to using this specific Boardman wheel.

Thanks

 

[Alan O]

If it's a rear wheel, it will be dished to accommodate the cassette.

 

[Ian H]

I think some front wheels with discs are dished.

 

[User65906]

Thanks Alan O and Ian H.
Both wheels on this bike are laced off centre,
they are disk brake type, the cassette is only ten speed
so there should be enough room for it.

I find it odd, that the frame was not made wide enough
and the wheel laced central.

 

[Alan O]

Thanks Alan O and Ian H.
Both wheels on this bike are laced off centre,
they are disk brake type, the cassette is only ten speed
so there should be enough room for it.

I find it odd, that the frame was not made wide enough
and the wheel laced central.

It's not so much the width of the frame that's the problem, its that the cassette (speaking of the rear wheel) takes up a portion of the available width on one side that has nothing on the other side to balance. So to have the wheel laced centrally, the stays would have to be asymmetric with the right stays angled further out. And then that would need the chainset further out to keep it in line, so the positions of the pedals would be asymmetric too.

Either that, or you'd need an arrangement with a portion of bare axle protruding on the left that measures the same as the cassette width.

 

[User65906]

Thanks Alan O, I understand what you are saying, I suppose on my voodoo agwa
with the wheel laced in the centre, both stays were well spread out, they were definitely
central to the bike and not asymmetric, it had a triple crank too, I liked the wide bb
that resulted from that set up.
The ADV definitely has narrowly spaced chain stays, that I noted from looking it over, no flat or pressed
spots to allow the chain ring clearance.
its just new to me, all my previous bikes had wheels that were laced from the centre of the rim to what
ever location on the hub, I liked that set up.
Maybe the reason is to have less yield in the wheel as the disk being off set would apply pressure to one
side instead of like a V brake which puts equal pressure on both sides of the wheel.
I think I saw this explained regarding the Model T ford wheels which were spoked, but it was to stop the
spokes one side breaking under torque it was done.

The front wheel is also laced off center around the rim, so am guessing its not space
that is the problem with it, must be something to do with braking forces being applied
to the one side of the wheel, the spoke pattern and the offset must be a bid to balance
out the forces.

 

[raleighnut]

Thanks Alan O, I understand what you are saying, I suppose on my voodoo agwa
with the wheel laced in the centre, both stays were well spread out, they were definitely
central to the bike and not asymmetric, it had a triple crank too, I liked the wide bb
that resulted from that set up.
The ADV definitely has narrowly spaced chain stays, that I noted from looking it over, no flat or pressed
spots to allow the chain ring clearance.
its just new to me, all my previous bikes had wheels that were laced from the centre of the rim to what
ever location on the hub, I liked that set up.
Maybe the reason is to have less yield in the wheel as the disk being off set would apply pressure to one
side instead of like a V brake which puts equal pressure on both sides of the wheel.
I think I saw this explained regarding the Model T ford wheels which were spoked, but it was to stop the
spokes one side breaking under torque it was done.

The front wheel is also laced off center around the rim, so am guessing its not space
that is the problem with it, must be something to do with braking forces being applied
to the one side of the wheel, the spoke pattern and the offset must be a bid to balance
out the forces.

 

[Alan O]

View attachment 410279

Ah, yes, what I'd missed is that we're talking about an offset design here. It's still nothing to do with the width of the stays, as the asymmetry of the axle and cassette has to be dealt with one way or another whatever the width. My vintage road bikes with 6-speed freewheels and narrow spacing have dished rear wheels, just the same as my MTB with 9-speed cassette and much wider spacing.

 

[si_c]

Perfectly normal, and done to help even out spoke angle and spoke length on each side.

If the rim has spokes without an offset then the angle on one side is very shallow when dished, which leads to a wheel which may not be as strong.

 

[User65906]

Thank you to all who posted, I can see the idea of off centre lacing
is not just a one off, thus acceptable, it would be nice to for
manufacturers to state the offset distance, to help us when we
need to source a replacement wheel,
and on that note, how does one determine what wheel will fit
it one wanted to upgrade., I can tell you there is an awful lot of
tyre hanging on either side of the rims on the ADV, mu agwa had
wider wheel rims, and wider tyres and no such balloon on either side
of the rim, it will be interesting to see how the bike handles, though
narrower tyres would bring it back into shape if required.

 

[smutchin]

how does one determine what wheel will fit
it one wanted to upgrade

The only dimensions that matter when deciding if a particular wheel will fit your bike are OLN (hub width), rim diameter and rim width. Where the spokes enter the rim is irrelevant.

Look at @raleighnut's diagram - the rim itself is centred even though the spoke holes are offset.

Your ballooning tyres are a function of the rim width, nothing to do with the offset spokes.

 

[Alan O]

Thank you to all who posted, I can see the idea of off centre lacing
is not just a one off, thus acceptable, it would be nice to for
manufacturers to state the offset distance, to help us when we
need to source a replacement wheel,
and on that note, how does one determine what wheel will fit
it one wanted to upgrade., I can tell you there is an awful lot of
tyre hanging on either side of the rims on the ADV, mu agwa had
wider wheel rims, and wider tyres and no such balloon on either side
of the rim, it will be interesting to see how the bike handles, though
narrower tyres would bring it back into shape if required.

I might be wrong, but I think any wheel designed for the width of your stays should fit. Whether it has offset lacing or is dished (or some combination of the two), that's surely purely internal to the wheel and it should still be centered fine?

PS: I see Smutchin has said the same while I was taking ages with my words.

 

[si_c]

@smutchin has already covered it, wheels are built so the rim is centred between the Two lock nuts of the hub, this means that all correctly built wheels will be in the same position.

Offsets are there entirely for the purpose of evening out the spokes in a given wheel and don't have any impact on position within the frame.

 

[User65906]

The only dimensions that matter when deciding if a particular wheel will fit your bike are OLN (hub width), rim diameter and rim width. Where the spokes enter the rim is irrelevant.

Look at @raleighnut's diagram - the rim itself is centred even though the spoke holes are offset.

Your ballooning tyres are a function of the rim width, nothing to do with the offset spokes.

Yes, they balloon tyre shape is down to the narrow rim, which can be overcome by using a narrower tyre.
My concerns regarding the off set lacing have been addressed, I never had this situation before thus my
concern.

 

[User65906]

Thanks again to all, I get the picture, was just concerned as I never had this situation before.