Wheel set upgrade

[Justinslow]

Can we have a scientific article posted where by two sets of wheels/tyres are tested back to back including climbing/descending where it shows that there is no performance gain with lighter/more aero wheels?

 

[PhilDawson8270]

The two rides include warm ups/downs at various speeds, the TT is the B10/39 which is taken well....... errrr........ flat out!

Fair enough, oversight there. I will take another look

 

[PhilDawson8270]

Can we have a scientific article posted where by two sets of wheels/tyres are tested back to back including climbing/descending where it shows that there is no performance gain with lighter/more aero wheels?

Can you provide any article where there is evidence that they DO have a performance gain?

 

[Yellow Saddle]

WOW guys calm down .. I'm not stating this new set of wheels made me faster than I normally am over the same distance and they were the sole reason for the six minutes gain I arrived at my destination. I've ridden this bike for three years, so I should know by now, how the bike felt with the other set up I had, the only tyre difference is going from 25 Gatorskins to 28 Gatorskins (25's going on my sons bike) I also removed the lights + battery pack + spare battery pack (for my phone using Endmondo).

IMHO the bike feels different, more responsive, lighter and a bit more comfortable, I never cycle out of my comfort zone, I always chose the gear I know to use for that particular stretch of road (I've cycled this route untold many of times) I will say though, I was able to use the next gear up and still maintain the same level of comfort, read into that what you will.

I want to put more mileage on the new stuff I added, then I can give a honest opinion was it worth it, from the few outings I've done so far, then the bigger smile factor is yes, but time will tell

Norm

Hmmmm. That's not what you said earlier on. I quote you:

"I was rather surprised, the bike feels much lighter, the power transfer from stamping on the pedals to the acceleration at the wheels is much sharper, coasting speed is higher, plus the distance compared to the other wheels is by far greater, climbing hills is easier, the bike over all is just faster and sharper.

I cycle every other Monday to a model club (plastic model kits) I'm a member of, normal time averages 27 minutes each way, last nights trip 21.18 and that's just at my normal cadence, but can't really add any opinions until I do a number of longer distances, I have a 18 mile loop and a 30 mile loops I normally do, so I'll compare the times and speeds to them.

But over all I'm really pleased at the change it has made, feels like a different bike IMHO"

Now you've changed your tune. You said you also removed some stuff from the bike. And, you now say you can pedal at the same cadence, with one gear higher, all thanks to the wheels (and of course now, the removal of some battery packs).

It sounds to me like you bought some new wheels and now you are justifying them with some silly performance claims.

Being able to pedal at the same cadence, but one gear higher thanks to new wheels is a very, very bold claim. Let me explain:

Your wheels have a circumference of 2085mm. That means, with each revolution of the crank (assuming it is a 50 tooth chainring and you are on a 16 sprocket) your bike goes forward 2085 x 50/16 mm. It is 6515mm. In one gear bigger you would go forward 2085 x 50/15mm = 6950mm. The difference is 6.7% That means, you get a 6.7% increase in speed just by changing wheels. Further, speed increase doesn't come with a linear increase in power but an exponential increase in power, because of the nature of drag. That means you got an estimated 10% increase in performance with your new wheels. It is just not possible.

Now that we've exposed that claim, I'm awaiting your (and others here) explanation for "responsive". What exactly does it mean?

 

[Yellow Saddle]

Bradley Wiggins seems to think to the contrary but I'm sure can correct the errors in his theory?

http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/latest-news/wiggins-6000-hour-record-chain-video-176173

Oh dear. Another BS article written by people who make liberal use of their thesaurus but zero use of standard mechanical engineering tests.

Here's some examples from that article.

Military grade
High pressure
Sonic bath (actually, it is called an ultra sonic bath and costs GBP 9-99 at ALDI).
pressure additives
Formulation, formulations and specially-formulated.
And then, the old graph, plotted with dubious units, such as "chain watts".
It is interesting to see that the worse product on the graph is wax. Now who would have guessed that hard wax would produce a poorer result than thin oil?

Dismiss that article with the disdain it deserves. It is PR bumph designed to give one of Sir B's sponsors some cheap airtime.

 

[Yellow Saddle]

I so love the ignore button

And so does the ostrich with his head in the sand. He also loves the sound of his own voice echo in the hole he digs for himself.

 

[Yellow Saddle]

Can you provide any article where there is evidence that they DO have a performance gain?

Phil, we have done the calculations here numerous times before and he knows about them allright, he participated previously. However, he never pointed out any errors in the calculations and now chooses to ignore them.

 

[jowwy]

And so does the ostrich with his head in the sand. He also loves the sound of his own voice echo in the hole he digs for himself.

 

[Yellow Saddle]

Can we have a scientific article posted where by two sets of wheels/tyres are tested back to back including climbing/descending where it shows that there is no performance gain with lighter/more aero wheels?

I have done that and created two identical bikes with different wheels. And I showed the gains. I'm not sure why you are asking again? Forgot? Cant find the link?

 

[PhilDawson8270]

As a semi-serious question to those pro light wheel performance, and those who do not believe.

I am slightly overweight (serious recent injury, meant lots of overeating and no exercise), and aiming to lose 8 to 10kg. Before my injury I did a combat sport which needed a lot of muscle mass. So I could probably safely drop down to around 70kg, from my current 88kg.

If you can gain 2 minutes of 10 miles, from a wheelset that is 1.2kg lighter, how much time will I save if I lose 18kg of weight? I will also become more aerodynamic too!

Will I do my 14mile loop in 30 minutes instead of 55? Or is large performance gains only applicable to shiney bits that goes on bikes?

 

[Justinslow]

View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=le_LSWfGJUo

There's this you tube un scientific test - light bike v heavy bike on a climb. (Been posted before)

 

[PhilDawson8270]

Light bike vs heavy bike, not 2kg wheel vs 1.7kg wheel

 

[winjim]

Can we have a scientific article posted where by two sets of wheels/tyres are tested back to back including climbing/descending where it shows that there is no performance gain with lighter/more aero wheels?

http://link.springer.com/article/10.2165/00007256-200131070-00009

60 - 82 seconds over 40km (modelled). So, maybe 30 sec over a 10 miler? And presumably that's with the very best aero wheels money can buy, compared with some bog standard wheels. So there is an advantage, just a very very tiny one, which is all I think anyone is saying.

 

[Justinslow]

As a semi-serious question to those pro light wheel performance, and those who do not believe.

I am slightly overweight (serious recent injury, meant lots of overeating and no exercise), and aiming to lose 8 to 10kg. Before my injury I did a combat sport which needed a lot of muscle mass. So I could probably safely drop down to around 70kg, from my current 88kg.

If you can gain 2 minutes of 10 miles, from a wheelset that is 1.2kg lighter, how much time will I save if I lose 18kg of weight? I will also become more aerodynamic too!

Will I do my 14mile loop in 30 minutes instead of 55? Or is large performance gains only applicable to shiney bits that goes on bikes?

My wheelset change saved around 780g including new cassette, tyres and tubes, and I'm not putting my 2 minute time saving solely down to them!
But I believe they helped!

 

[Justinslow]

http://link.springer.com/article/10.2165/00007256-200131070-00009

60 - 82 seconds over 40km (modelled). So, maybe 30 sec over a 10 miler? And presumably that's with the very best aero wheels money can buy, compared with some bog standard wheels. So there is an advantage, just a very very tiny one, which is all I think anyone is saying.

30 seconds over a 10 miler is huge I'm having some of that!
Oh I did........