When Kids are In Charge !!!

[Mo1959]

There are plenty of practically incapable kids coming out of high end schooling.

I was that 'hippy parent' who would have been the subject of much derision from some on here.

Both my boys went to mainstream state, schools..

The primary one was very 'aspirational' academically, with all the little darlings (apart from mine) being taken around to after school cello, and supplementary this and that so as to get them into the local state grammar.

Even when the local comp was perfectly good, and gave (to my mind) a far more rounded education.

I used to go into the Primary, on a Friday, to run a garden club, many eleven year old I encountered there hadn't ever been taught to use a saw..

In fact it was mainly a 'mud and sticks' club.. Because just being practical, or even having fun outdoors, wasn't really on their parents agenda. (unless it was skiing holidays at Easter)

In the intervening years, quite a few of those same youth have told me how they were inspired by those experiences, to do other stuff with their lives.. Such as farming, and growing, and other practical and outdoor things, environmental work even.

So maybe we could be a little slower to judge and label, and realise that education is about much broader stuff than turning out freshly minted cogs for the unquestioning capitalistic machine.??

Good post and totally agree. My brother and I were totally different. I was reasonably bright and got highers and o-levels even although I didn’t apply myself that well. He is not as bright academically but can turn his hand to anything he is so practical. Takes all sorts to make the world go round.

 

[mudsticks]

Good post and totally agree. My brother and I were totally different. I was reasonably bright and got highers and o-levels even although I didn’t apply myself that well. He is not as bright academically but can turn his hand to anything he is so practical. Takes all sorts to make the world go round.

Takes all sorts, as you say.

I got really good grades at school, I'm from an academic background - University academic and a schoolteacher for parents.

But still, despite all that, I chose to go into a mainly practical profession - agriculture..
Because I knew it would suit me better.

Of course it does take a certain level of mental capacity to be successful at it, as well.

I think there's a big danger (and in this country at least vast amounts of snobbery surrounding) in dismissing all practical / craft / physically more taxing occupations as only being fit for those intellectually incapable of doing anything else.

Which is why perhaps we have had to import so much labour to do farming / building / care work etc.

There's an attitude among a lot of the UK population that this sort of work is 'beneath' them.

Even, when much of it is the most vital, and vital that it be done well..

But why would anyone choose to do these jobs, if the feel they are going to be undervalued paywise, or socially??

 

[Mo1959]

My dad was a perfect example. Left school as soon as he could and straight into work with his grandad learning to be an agricultural contractor. Became self-employed and served all the local farms in the area fencing and draining. He was extremely skilled and highly sought after. Didn’t have a single qualification though.

He could also name virtually every type of tree, plant and bird species in the area. After losing him in December, one of the things I really miss is being able to ask him things.

 

[Deleted member 26715]

@Mugshot @Mo1959 You are both banging my favourite drum, have you both considered Politics?

 

[Brains]

I don't think anyone here is advocating 'school is best in all cases'
With all schooling, be it Official, Private or Home there are excellent, good, mediocre, and abysmal levels of education.

The problem is there is no list of kids schooled outside of the national education system.
Therefore no one has a clue as to how effective/ineffective non-official school education is.
60,000 kids that were enrolled at school at primary level have disappeared off the current school rolls.
However this does not include tens of thousands more who were never on the rolls in the first place.

As posted above, no normal 8 year old should be incapable of writing their own name.
Whatever system of education is being used in this case has clearly failed and a solution needs to be found for that child as there is clearly abuse going on at some level.

 

[swee'pea99]

I've not seen the telly prog, nor am I likely to, but it sounds like the usual extremist, sensationalist, conflict egged up for public entertainment nonsense, that gets the 'Daily Fail Frothers' frothing as per..

Quite. I'm also firmly in the 'I've not seen the telly prog, nor am I likely to' camp, but even from the OP it's clear this programme is not a documentary, in the sense of a programme teaching you things you didn't know about something interesting. This is trolling as programme making: created entirely to elicit, encourage and nurture a cultural divide & rule which serves the powers that be very nicely indeed. Whether it's foreigners, 'deviants', the workshy or hippies, the name of the game is the same - 'they' are awful (just look!) - you are not. That's why everything's gone to hell in a handcart. Not because the already staggeringly wealthy have become ever richer while the mass of the population stagnate or slide, but because they are, let's be frank, scum.

Like I say, nasty, cheap, populist trash, with a sinister and utterly cynical subtext.

 

[lane]

I agree, there are a fair percentage that can not fit into the normal school regime, some are exceptionally bright or have severe social issues, however this does not include the thousands of kids from Roma and Traveller families, the Ultra Orthodox religious families (of multiple religions), kids who's parents have chosen a Hippy way of life, and the simply "don't care" group.

The issue is when these kids start having kids of their own are they then going to send them to school ?
In the majority of cases, I'd suspect not.
However as unschooled kids are not registered there is no way to know if this follows from generation to generation.

Personally I'd like to introduce a law that said every kid HAS to be registered with a school
And they HAVE to physically turn up at school at least once per term, if for no other reason than to see if they are not being excessively abused.
Normal 8 year old's that can't write their own name should be getting visits from Social Services ......

I don't disagree with your comments at all makes a lot of sense.

 

[Mugshot]

@Mugshot @Mo1959 You are both banging my favourite drum, have you both considered Politics?

Hi @Phaeton I appreciate and am flattering by the fact that I am never far from your thoughts, but I think that in this instance you may mean @mudsticks ?

 

[Brains]

Officially the literacy level of the UK is 99%
Give that number to anyone that works in local libraries or Job centres and they will laugh at you.

The real figure of the 'functionally literate' is around 70%,
The real figure of the totally illiterate is certainly greater than 10%

We are the 26th most literate country in the world, which puts us close to the bottom in Europe.
WHO estimates about 20% of the UK population can't really read or write to a usable level.
(Germany by contrast is under 10%, with compulsory school attendance)
You have to ask ourselves where have we gone wrong .......

 

[Dave7]

Good post and totally agree. My brother and I were totally different. I was reasonably bright and got highers and o-levels even although I didn’t apply myself that well. He is not as bright academically but can turn his hand to anything he is so practical. Takes all sorts to make the world go round.

I left secondry modern (lower) school in 1961 without a single exam pass or qualification. My older brother was the clever one, he left grammar school with GCSEs. He always had 'decent' jobs but nothing special.
For many years I bummed around, never out of work (apart from one spell in recession hit 80s) then in my 40s found my niche and ended up running my own company.. ....not massive but a £million plus turnover.
So.....my OP was purely because I found it hard to understand/believe what I was reading.
Liķe @mudsticks and others, I will not be watching it

 

[BrumJim]

So these home-schooled kids will be the same lads I see mooching around in Greater Manchester in grey marl tracksuits, phone glued to one ear and pushing a pram with the other hand. They appear to be unemployable.

We are staying in a huge old Victorian hotel in Crieff. Every single member of staff is non-british. What are the locals doing?

Recommend that you pop down the road to Comrie, and stop off in Di'el's Cauldron. My cousin runs it - mostly local staff, but it is the food and hospitality that you should be going for, not the nationality of the staff.

 

[Mo1959]

Recommend that you pop down the road to Comrie, and stop off in Di'el's Cauldron. My cousin runs it - mostly local staff, but it is the food and hospitality that you should be going for, not the nationality of the staff.

I’ve lived in Crieff nearly 40 years now and still never been in. I do hear good things about it. Been on the go a while too, unlike some places. Really must pop in some time.

 

[tom73]

Then we have the ever growing issue of schools "off rolling" students who dare to drag down the league table.
The academies have taken this to a whole new league. Since the take over we've never had as many booted out results are the be all and end all.
Good staff that looked out for the ruff diamonds have been quietly made to move on. Replaced my result driven internal staff backed up by senior leadership team who know more about a spread sheet and learner flightpaths than what teaching and learning is really about.

For too long education has been mixed up learning the game and passing the latest government rehash exam papers.
Radical rethink is not new a government report from the 50's outlined more or less what many think we need today.
Wilson's government quietly left to gather dust it was seen too radical.

Today sadly school is nothing more than a production line. I see it every year the new school year starts as the fresh batch arrives.
I did not train to teach parrots. One reason I won't do main stream so much of my time is getting kids back into the very system that spat them out.
Or dealing with the mess the forgot ones get into with too much time to full the day.

 

[Paulus]

That's not fine. That's neglect. Blatant child abuse.

I agree,

 

[BrumJim]

I’ve lived in Crieff nearly 40 years now and still never been in. I do hear good things about it. Been on the go a while too, unlike some places. Really must pop in some time.

Go, and tell them Jim sent you. Good to hear that you have heard good things about it. If that makes sense?