Anti log burner brigade

[classic33]

The difference is with central heating efficiency not being helped by fashionable woodburner use there is no actual value in them other than user fashion or leisure use. Open fires are called bushcraft TV. I think a lot of mostly non-rural use is effectively entertainment or bushcraft TV.

However, for some cars are an unfortunate necessity to get to work or other necessary journeys. Hypocrisy applies to cars if you have other options. We live in a village with a branch rail line that I've been using for years to commute to work. I have to use the car to get to nearest town if I need to get anything. Food shopping can be done by delivery, efficient vehicle use. So if we got a woodburner we'd be the hypocrite for getting that pollution kit.

Nothing involving release of pollution is good, the best we can do is reduce our levels of pollution where possible. If anyone is supporting woodburners or car use because they like them but don't need them then there's no positive there. You're being a leisure polluter. Is that a good thing? I don't think so in most cases. I know ppl who drive to go for walks in their local lakeland fells who do that walking for mental health. I do doubt that anyone burns wood for mental health. So I can see how certain leisure car use can be justified for MH.

So this all comes from where your personal ethics are. You've got to live with your actions but own your choice. Non necessary wood burning and car use is simply polluting by choice not necessity. It's not about policing personal choice just encouraging ppl to understand the impact of their choice and perhaps consider how necessary it is or if it really is worth it.

And when the wood being burnt is also providing the main source of cooking heat, hot water and central heating, what then?

The bigger problem is central heating.
On, behind permanently closed double glazed windows, and often at a temperature that heats the entire house to the same level.
We've just got a bit too comfortable with being in enclosed spaces, with little or no interaction with others, outside of the house.

 

[Beebo]

I occasional burn a few logs in the garden fire pit if we’re in the garden in the evenin, which is probably just as bad.

 

[Ming the Merciless]

If you’re going to kick up a stink have a word with the bog burners.

 

[roubaixtuesday]

At the risk of thread drift, would an alternative, none polluting, solution, be, during summer, use solar to generate electricity, use that electricity to make hydrogen by electrolysis, store said hydrogen to burn for heat, in winter.

The very low volumetric energy density of hydrogen makes this a very challenging proposition. But I think it is indeed a significant part of UK "plans"* for zero carbon IIRC.

The alternative suggestion of "trees" made by others unfortunately lacks anywhere close to enough land area.

 

[ebikeerwidnes]

Many years ago I stopped at a B&B for the night - not booked - just getting late and needed somewhere to stay

Miles away from anywhere - lovely place in a Mid Wales valley

The bloke showed be round the place in the morning - they had stacks of woods all over the place - large carefully stacked piles of wood from the woods around the house
Every one was labelled with a year - it went back 6-7 years - all stacked carefully and covered to protect it from the rain

apparently only one stack was used every year

and that was enough to heat the house for most of the winter


BTW - when I was paying he was having trouble with the card machine and left me in his office for a while
I noticed a load of photos on a cork board and thought I recognised some of the people

William and Harry - in their younger days

Nice place!!!

 

[Alex321]

And it's not a question of better or worse. People either pollute unnecessarily or they don't. You're either good or you're bad. You're a criminal or you're law abiding. You're dead or alive. There are no shades of grey with these things.

To a human being (rather than the robot you often appear to be), the only one of those with no shades of grey is the "dead or alive".

All of the rest most certainly do have shades of grey.

 

[Alex321]

In our last house - an ex pub just inside the Brecon Beacons National Park - we had two log burners and an open fire.

We also had an LPG condensing boiler for hot water and heating most of the house (18 radiators). There were 5 downstairs rooms not heated by those radiators. Three of those had radiators heated by a back burner behind the open fire, and the other two rooms (quite large) were where the log burners were.

We use to buy a cubic metre of seasoned hardwood, and half a ton of coal, and those usually lasted us the winter. As much as possible, we burned found softwood on the open fire, plus coal.

That really was a ridiculous house for us, once the kids had all left home, but we stayed there another 18 years with just the two of us in a 6 bedroom, 5 reception room mostly stone-built house, parts of which dated to the 17th century.

 

[Tenkaykev]

The very low volumetric energy density of hydrogen makes this a very challenging proposition. But I think it is indeed a significant part of UK "plans"* for zero carbon IIRC.

The alternative suggestion of "trees" made by others unfortunately lacks anywhere close to enough land area.

There's also the storage problem with Hydrogen " boil off " where the molecules can creep through joints. I read that if you parked an electric vehicle in an airport car park and went away on holiday for a fortnight, on return the battery might have lost a few percent of charge. If you had a hydrogen fuelled vehicle the tank would be completely empty.
I can't understand the logic of using solar electricity to produce hydrogen to use in a hydrogen fuel cell which uses the hydrogen to produce electricity to power the car.

 

[BoldonLad]

The very low volumetric energy density of hydrogen makes this a very challenging proposition. But I think it is indeed a significant part of UK "plans"* for zero carbon IIRC.

The alternative suggestion of "trees" made by others unfortunately lacks anywhere close to enough land area.

Yes, efficient storage of electricity is a big challenge, not yet solved. I don’t know the answer, if I did, I would be very rich 😊

 

[roubaixtuesday]

There's also the storage problem with Hydrogen " boil off " where the molecules can creep through joints. I read that if you parked an electric vehicle in an airport car park and went away on holiday for a fortnight, on return the battery might have lost a few percent of charge. If you had a hydrogen fuelled vehicle the tank would be completely empty.
I can't understand the logic of using solar electricity to produce hydrogen to use in a hydrogen fuel cell which uses the hydrogen to produce electricity to power the car.

AIUI "boil off" is different - it's heat transfer causing liquid hydrogen (held at 20K) to boil, such as in the space shuttle tank.

Cars run on compressed hydrogen gas - according to Wiki, compressed up to 700 bar!

I wouldn't expect leakage to be an issue with this - apparently the Toyota Mirai has hydrogen leak detectors.

 

[cougie uk]

Yes, efficient storage of electricity is a big challenge, not yet solved. I don’t know the answer, if I did, I would be very rich 😊

There is Dinorwig Hydro etc ? And I've heard similar plans to have warehouses of weights that can be raised to the heights when it's windy or sunny and then spun down to produce electric when we need them ?

 

[Tenkaykev]

There is Dinorwig Hydro etc ? And I've heard similar plans to have warehouses of weights that can be raised to the heights when it's windy or sunny and then spun down to produce electric when we need them ?

The weight lifting idea gets raised from time to time, but when the numbers are run it's completely impractical.

 

[tyred]

The weight lifting idea gets raised from time to time, but when the numbers are run it's completely impractical.

Could be used to power the world's biggest cuckoo clock.

 

[icowden]

We went narrow boating at the end of October, and it struck me then that this is an area which is seeing change. Many, many boats are still using wood burners for heat, but a lot of boats now are also using solar panels for some of their energy. There are also EV Narrowboats being created instead of diesel, but I suspect that the diesel boats will be around for a long time to come, unless the Diesel becomes too expensive.

 

[Profpointy]

AIUI "boil off" is different - it's heat transfer causing liquid hydrogen (held at 20K) to boil, such as in the space shuttle tank.

Cars run on compressed hydrogen gas - according to Wiki, compressed up to 700 bar!

I wouldn't expect leakage to be an issue with this - apparently the Toyota Mirai has hydrogen leak detectors.

700 bar sounds a hell of a lot. Normal SCUBA tanks are 230bar with 300bar as a heavier and less satisfactory alternative. You don't even get the expected extra 50% in a 300 bar tank as at the higher pressures gas becomes less compressible as it were. 700bar tanks would be extremely thick and heavy and it would cost a lot more (energy and money) to pump it up that high, as well as not getting as much extra as you'd think. Hydrogen is also somewhat problematic material reacting with steel and so on. You really don't want your 700bar tank going brittle !