BKool Smart Air turbo

[Velochris]

Any early experiences? Strangely no media reviews yet but some online sites showing they are available.

 

[theboxers]

Try these posts

For those interested in yesterdays presentation of the Smart Air. I've done a small video. At the end of the video, you can see @JacobSkovsgaard and Morten "Museeuw" Bundgaard Pedersen battle it out head to head. Jacob wins at 4:57 and Morten some 33-37 seconds later. The route ridden was this one: https://www.bkool.com/profile/detail/5464953.

Feel free to beat their times. They were logged in as a "Bkool" user, and I don't think Jacob saved his run. Museeuw's is the "Bkool 4" one at 5:32 and the winner of the trip to Spain the "Bkool 4" one at 5:08, done by a MTB/Cyclocross guy.

My time was around 6:30, for those needing a lower target. The biggest chaingring was 50t on my Orbea bike (the same one Musseuw and the trip-winner was riding), so I literally spun out at the first 1-2 km. Jacob had brought his own bike with a 52t, and I would probably be able to shave 10-15 seconds off my time using that instead.

One of the Airs started developing at loud noise during the event. In the start of the video, it is quiet, but when you see the riders in white (former Pro Tour rider Bo Hamburger (left) and current Ultra Cyclist Peter Sandholdt) it is really noisy. The noise you hear when I zoom in on the limited edtion "Dannebrog" (name of our flag) Air in the sequence, is actually coming from the one on the left (Bo's). Sandholdt beat Hamburger, and so did I by about 10 seconds.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v1K4v7k52C4

Quite frankly, until I see a test by a reputable home trainer tester, like DC Rainmaker or GP Lama, I would wait. A few things puts me off right off the bat:

1) You can not calibrate it yourself (!!)
2) The one ridden by Morten (and me earlier) started to lean to the left (as you see in the video), forcing him to stop to regain balance. Another rider apparently suffered the same, and she was a woman at only about 54kg. It could be accidential or worse a design flaw not taking into account us Northern 80-90kg+ riders, and someone broke it before she rode it?
3) It gets really hot inside, which can't be good for the electronics or belt etc. However, it has an active cooler running, even after you finish, to cool things down.

The noise level was in the same ballpark as my Direto, maybe a bit lower. But as with all DD trainers, it depends a lot on how clean your drivetrain is. Still WAY more quiet than the Pro! I did a completely unscientific measurement with my iPhone. At about 0.5m from the trainer (on drive side), it said about 75db, but we have to take into account the background noise from people chatting etc.

Would I upgrade my Direto for this one? No, I don't think so. Then again, I also don't see any compelling reason to upgrade to a Neo 2 either.
The flexing would take some time getting used to, as it would using a rocker plate. I rarely stand up on my Direto, as I'm afraid to break my carbon frame. Probably won't happen, but better safe than sorry. :-)

 

[CXRAndy]

Its probably fair to say that Bkool's biggest market is Denmark. They seem to have the largest user base. Like all new trainers the expert reviewers will get their sticky mits on it at some point. The RRP is cuckoo, if it is a decent trainer and wants to grab a share of the market it needs to be mid £500 at the most. Trouble is the decent performance, mid priced trainer section is filling up with some good units.

 

[Brusgaard]

Its probably fair to say that Bkool's biggest market is Denmark. They seem to have the largest user base. Like all new trainers the expert reviewers will get their sticky mits on it at some point. The RRP is cuckoo, if it is a decent trainer and wants to grab a share of the market it needs to be mid £500 at the most. Trouble is the decent performance, mid priced trainer section is filling up with some good units.

Yes, outside Spain, Denmark has the most Bkoolers AFAIK. This is in many ways thanks to the Danish BKOOL Facebook group with now more than 6.000 members. Word of mouth means a lot when novice users buy their first turbo.

Back in 2014, when I bought my Pro, the turbo/indoor scene was not a thing yet. Back in those days most were riding outdoors during the winter on MTB, using a cheap dumb trainer or simply not riding at all from November till March..
I can't remember why I bought excatly the Pro, but probably because it would simulate 12% instead of the 7/8% offered by the Classic. Besides I guess it just met the pricepoint I wanted?
I could care less about accuracy, and frankly nobody cared or even talked about it back then. Everyone else I competed against was using a Classic or a Pro and riding only in Bkool Indoor Simulator (before ANT+FE-C). So we were in many ways equal, accurate or not, at least as long as we didn't go above 8%.

But boy, the world has changed! Accuracy etc. has come to play an important part as more and more people use Zwift and other platforms, where it might be considered cheating riding an uncalibrated or inaccurate trainer. If doing only social rides or training by yourself, nobody frowns about it. But in races, you can get in serious trouble if having an "unfair" advantage! Then again, isn't having a motor to assist you downhill (like in the Neo) cheating then?

Regarding the RRP, it is perfectly natural to start at a higher price. The Neo 2 is considerably more expensive than the older version, but as of right now offers very little extra AFAIK. I expect the Smart Air to drop in price pretty quickly, maybe to the £600-700 pricepoint, which in my book would be fair considering the power/resistance delivered.

But being version 1, there is bound to be some manufacturing/firmware issues, as was also the case with the Neo, Flux, Kickr(s), Direto etc. Lets hope they can iron out potential mistakes, before they loose even more marketshare. Competition is good for the user!

 

[bridgy]

Yes, outside Spain, Denmark has the most Bkoolers AFAIK. This is in many ways thanks to the Danish BKOOL Facebook group with now more than 6.000 members. Word of mouth means a lot when novice users buy their first turbo.

Back in 2014, when I bought my Pro, the turbo/indoor scene was not a thing yet. Back in those days most were riding outdoors during the winter on MTB, using a cheap dumb trainer or simply not riding at all from November till March..
I can't remember why I bought excatly the Pro, but probably because it would simulate 12% instead of the 7/8% offered by the Classic. Besides I guess it just met the pricepoint I wanted?
I could care less about accuracy, and frankly nobody cared or even talked about it back then. Everyone else I competed against was using a Classic or a Pro and riding only in Bkool Indoor Simulator (before ANT+FE-C). So we were in many ways equal, accurate or not, at least as long as we didn't go above 8%.

But boy, the world has changed! Accuracy etc. has come to play an important part as more and more people use Zwift and other platforms, where it might be considered cheating riding an uncalibrated or inaccurate trainer. If doing only social rides or training by yourself, nobody frowns about it. But in races, you can get in serious trouble if having an "unfair" advantage! Then again, isn't having a motor to assist you downhill (like in the Neo) cheating then?

Regarding the RRP, it is perfectly natural to start at a higher price. The Neo 2 is considerably more expensive than the older version, but as of right now offers very little extra AFAIK. I expect the Smart Air to drop in price pretty quickly, maybe to the £600-700 pricepoint, which in my book would be fair considering the power/resistance delivered.

But being version 1, there is bound to be some manufacturing/firmware issues, as was also the case with the Neo, Flux, Kickr(s), Direto etc. Lets hope they can iron out potential mistakes, before they loose even more marketshare. Competition is good for the user!

Good post @Brusgaard , but not sure if you're joking or not when you question whether the Neo is "cheating" because of the "motor assist" downhill - i.e fact the freewheel turns under it's own power on downhills when you stop pedaling? Just in case you are serious, no it's not cheating as the freewheel moving doesn't transmit any power to Zwift so makes no difference to your speed at all, it's just a cosmetic feature to try and make things feel more realistic.

 

[<Tommy>]

Just in case any random person stumbles across this thread while contemplating a turbo purchase. I think it’s my civic duty to say anyone who buys this product with knowledge of bkool’s track record needs their heads testing. Anyone without knowledge of how desperately poor bkools track record is feel free to ask.

Just to sumerise...

Bkool have a history of sub standard inaccurate products.

Their customer service is incredibly poor.

They are not honest in the way they represent themselves.

The price of this particular product while compared to other products with a similar price point but a far better track record should hopefully make it an easy decision for most people. At least the pro unit has a price that is appealing to specific group type.

Have a good Christmas folks!

 

[Brusgaard]

Good post @Brusgaard , but not sure if you're joking or not when you question whether the Neo is "cheating" because of the "motor assist" downhill - i.e fact the freewheel turns under it's own power on downhills when you stop pedaling? Just in case you are serious, no it's not cheating as the freewheel moving doesn't transmit any power to Zwift so makes no difference to your speed at all, it's just a cosmetic feature to try and make things feel more realistic.

OK, I haven't tried the Neo, but one of the big diffrences between my old Pro and my Direto is how much more you have to work when going downhill. I would imagine having a little help spinning the flywheel would make it easier to keep the momentum? If so, saving a few watts gives you an advantage later, right?

 

[bridgy]

OK, I haven't tried the Neo, but one of the big diffrences between my old Pro and my Direto is how much more you have to work when going downhill. I would imagine having a little help spinning the flywheel would make it easier to keep the momentum? If so, saving a few watts gives you an advantage later, right?

You don't save any watts, as the speed of the flywheel is irrelevant, because it's transmitting power not speed. You don't feel any assistance when pedaling downhill either - not noticeable to me anyway.

 

[<Tommy>]

What’s the motor for? To make the transition between freewheeling and applying power easier?

This is all a bit off topic obviously. It’s completely incomparable to the variation in watts the Bkool pro offers.

 

[Brusgaard]

What’s the motor for? To make the transition between freewheeling and applying power easier?

From what I've read, it is to provide "a more realistic downhill experience". I.e. when going downhill on say a Direto, you have to apply more power (watts?) than you would in the real world. The motor then helps simulating real world better by keeping the (simulated) flywheel spinning. If I start coasting on my Direto, the flywheel will eventually stop, making it harder for me to get it back up to speed after the descent.

 

[CXRAndy]

The slowing of the flywheel on downhills is a tiny issue. The inertia, coupled with little resistance allows my flywheel to keep spinning for ages. I only have to put in a tiny power input to keep it spinning all the way down the Pretzel(ignoring the small climbs)

 

[<Tommy>]

Yeah I think I’d probably argue that if the motor is to smooth the transition between freewheeling and applying power it’s something other companies should incorporate. My left knee was really bad last winter and I think it was related to the atom being brutal through this transition.

I can see that you could argue that this is a energy saver long term if you’re going through numerous big transitions. But... I don’t think this is a bigger advantage than say the kickr which I think is widely accepted to over estimate power. Or other turbos with less accurate power readings than the neo.

I’m not sure we can really put any of these examples in the same category as Bkool pro power readings can we?

 

[Brusgaard]

The slowing of the flywheel on downhills is a tiny issue. The inertia, coupled with little resistance allows my flywheel to keep spinning for ages. I only have to put in a tiny power input to keep it spinning all the way down the Pretzel(ignoring the small climbs)

I think I'll have to do a non-race test on my Direto. Any easy ways to be teleported to the top, so I don't have to ride up there?

 

[bridgy]

From what I've read, it is to provide "a more realistic downhill experience". I.e. when going downhill on say a Direto, you have to apply more power (watts?) than you would in the real world. The motor then helps simulating real world better. by keeping the flywheel spinning. If I start coasting on my Direto, the flywheel will eventually stop, making it harder for me to get it back up to speed after the descent.

I think you'll have to actually try a Neo to appreciate what I'm saying, but it doesn't actually feel like like you think it does.

The moment you put down any significant watts on or at the end of a descent, the resistance instantly kicks in. The Bkool I used before obviously didn't drive the freewheel on descents, but the downhill resistance on the Neo is greater not less, and it's no easier to re-apply power as you pedal out of a descent.

The speed of your flywheel on the Direto should be irrelevant as it's transmitting power not speed, same as the Neo. In your example, even if there was more resistance to overcome to get the flywheel up to speed on the Direto compared to the Neo, it would just be a temporary difference in resistance between the two trainers. As long as you're putting the same power down it won't matter and it won't give one trainer an advantage over the other - same principle as the Zwift "difficulty" setting which affects resistance levels but not power or speed on zwift.

 

[Brusgaard]

But... I don’t think this is a bigger advantage than say the kickr which I think is widely accepted to over estimate power. Or other turbos with less accurate power readings than the neo.

I’m not sure we can really put any of these examples in the same category as Bkool pro power readings can we?

Like said a few posts ago, in the era of the Pro, "nobody" really cared. We are talking accuracy / advantages of current/new direct drive models. As we all know, the Pro/Classic estimates/calculates (some would say guesses) power, and sometimes gets it right and sometimes wrong.

A preliminary review of the Air done by a fellow Dansih Bkooler, says the watts are within 5 watts of his Rotor INPower and P1 pedals. He did a 20 minute ride, and the avg. were as follows: P1 178w, Rotor 175w and the Air 173w.