Di2 good or bad?

[nick.b]

For arguments sake, lets ignore Dura-ace di2, as its crazy expensive..

ive been contemplating the pros and cons and wondering if its worth the upgrade over mech Ultegra.

Cons
Ultegra Di2 weighs in at 200g-ish over ultegra
about £700 more expensive.
cant shift multiple gears at once.
possibility of electrical parts failing whist out.

Pros
hoods are nicers imo
easy 1click shifting encourages changing gear more often

from what i can work out, you dont have to have a bike that has internal cables, just get a differnt cable set.

Whats your take?

 

[black'n'yellow]

easy 1click shifting encourages changing gear more often

Just a small point, but 'changing gear more often' is not the same as 'changing gear as often as you need'....pretty much all modern shifters will do that in one click anyway, electric or not.

The rear shifter works in an identical fashion to a standard cable shifter - you click the lever (or button) and it changes up or down, so no difference and no advantage. The only benefit I could see when I tried it was the ability to 'powershift' up from the small ring to the big ring while the chain is under heavy load, like it might be in a sprint over the top of a steep climb. It is very difficult - if not impossible - to do this on a manual setup without backing off a bit on the pedals. But then I realised that I've never actually had to do that in any situation I've ever been in.

Then add into the equation the fact that the only person I know with an electronic gear set has had nothing but trouble with it (battery & power loss issues, although I believe it's working ok now) - and I come to the conclusion that I will hang on to my reliable and no-less-effective SRAM Force stuff for a while longer.

That's not so say it won't improve and it won't catch on though, I'm sure it will....

 

[nick.b]

agreed, i really cant see the need for Di2 ,if anything they seem worse in some ways, but i would like to like them

 

[Drago]

What are the benefits? I've never ridden them do would be interested if shifting is any quicker, smoother or more reliable.

 

[nick.b]

What are the benefits? I've never ridden them do would be interested if shifting is any quicker, smoother or more reliable.

thats what im asking, seems noone really has any experiance of them, alth the auto adjusting mech's seem nice.

i was hoping to strike up an interesting debate

 

[Sittingduck]

Auto trim on the front mech?

 

[smokeysmoo]

It's supposed to be the dogs danglies, but I guess you know that already. Extremely reliable, self trimming, (no chain rub), long battery life, and in the event the battery does drain it apparently shuts down systematically, in other words it shifts the chain onto the small ring and shuts down the front mech so the rear mech can still be operated for as long as possible, all clever stuff.

While it's a few years away I can almost guarantee my next bike will have Di2

 

[nick.b]

It's supposed to be the dogs danglies, but I guess you know that already. Extremely reliable, self trimming, (no chain rub), long battery life, and in the event the battery does drain it apparently shuts down systematically, in other words it shifts the chain onto the small ring and shuts down the front mech so the rear mech can still be operated for as long as possible, all clever stuff.

While it's a few years away I can almost guarantee my next bike will have Di2

nice feature, didnt know it did that

 

[Drago]

It's supposed to be very reliable from what I've read.

As the price comes down and it becomes more mainstream I'd have no objection to having it, if only for the bragging rights.

 

[Mr Haematocrit]

It's supposed to be the dogs danglies, but I guess you know that already. Extremely reliable, self trimming, (no chain rub), long battery life, and in the event the battery does drain it apparently shuts down systematically, in other words it shifts the chain onto the small ring and shuts down the front mech so the rear mech can still be operated for as long as possible, all clever stuff.

Totally correct info. It's also worth noting that there is a battery status check mode, if you press all shifters at the same time the junction box displays a red or green light to show the battery status. When you get the red light you have approximately 500 miles worth of charge in the battery, so you get plenty of warning.. If the battery goes flat its only one persons fault for not checking imho you can't lay blame on the system.

One functionality I like of Di2 which is often forgotten when discussing the pro's and cons is the ability to have additional shifters where you like, I currently have additional sprint shifters on my Venge and previously had bar top shifters.
Di2 can also be modified, I have done internal seat post battery conversions, additional shifters and powered lights from the Di2 battery source.

I have the Di2 diagnostics and have learnt a lot about it, the biggest issue you see is crap installations and people not understanding the technological differences between Di2 and Ui2.. People are now running the system on MTB's without issue which goes to show how durable it really is.
It's a game changer imho, if you do not get it, or see the need for it, you have not lived with Di2, once you do you will not go back.

 

[NotthatJasonKenny]

Totally correct info. It's also worth noting that there is a battery status check mode, if you press all shifters at the same time the junction box displays a red or green light to show the battery status. When you get the red light you have approximately 500 miles worth of charge in the battery, so you get plenty of warning.. If the battery goes flat its only one persons fault for not checking imho you can't lay blame on the system.

One functionality I like of Di2 which is often forgotten when discussing the pro's and cons is the ability to have additional shifters where you like, I currently have additional sprint shifters on my Venge and previously had bar top shifters.
Di2 can also be modified, I have done internal seat post battery conversions, additional shifters and powered lights from the Di2 battery source.

I have the Di2 diagnostics and have learnt a lot about it, the biggest issue you see is crap installations and people not understanding the technological differences between Di2 and Ui2.. People are now running the system on MTB's without issue which goes to show how durable it really is.
It's a game changer imho, if you do not get it, or see the need for it, you have not lived with Di2, once you do you will not go back.

I'm 99% sure my next bike will be Ui2 so I'm interested to hear what it is 'to get' and what the 'need' is? Also, what in practise is the difference between the two?

I've heard about the ability to shift under load which sounds good except in reality how often do you think that is an issue?

The auto trimming sounds a great feature too!

What else makes it worth having?

 

[Mr Haematocrit]

ive been contemplating the pros and cons and wondering if its worth the upgrade over mech Ultegra.

Cons
Ultegra Di2 weighs in at 200g-ish over ultegra <------- you can reduce this greatly with an internal seat post battery as you lose the weight of the batter mount and battery case.
about £700 more expensive. <-------has more parts and more technology, you pay for the latest and greatest cellphone and do the same for the latest and greatest bike tech
cant shift multiple gears at once. <-------The next generation release will resolve this issue, out of interest EPS can do it already.
possibility of electrical parts failing whist out. <-------Mechanical parts can fail also, cables can snap, this imho does not make it a disadvantage or a con, but I have never had apart fail on me yet, on road bikes or mtb

Pros
hoods are nicers imo
easy 1click shifting encourages changing gear more often

from what i can work out, you dont have to have a bike that has internal cables, just get a differnt cable set. <-------all bikes can be internally route as well, if you really want to do this. The internal and external loom and junction box are different.

Whats your take?[ <------- im loving it /quote]

 

[nick.b]

Great feedback,and some very interesting points, thankyou V

 

[Mr Haematocrit]

I'm 99% sure my next bike will be Ui2 so I'm interested to hear what it is 'to get' and what the 'need' is? Also, what in practise is the difference between the two?

I've heard about the ability to shift under load which sounds good except in reality how often do you think that is an issue?

The auto trimming sounds a great feature too!

What else makes it worth having?

The ability to shift under load is not a major advantage for me personally although I must admit that I do enjoy coming to a halt with my friends behind me on a hill and placing all the standard shifters under load, watching them panic in the wrong gear and shifting quickly to get away
The biggest advantage for me is simply how slick it is which makes changing a non issue on either the front or back.. its so easy to live with.When you combine this ease with the ability to add additional shifters where you want on the bike, it becomes so convenient.
The auto trimming you just take for granted after a while.

Without doubt people say the Dura-Ace Di2 is better (will call it Di2 from this point) than Ultegra (will call it Ui2 from this point) however this is not totally correct. The Dura-Ace cassette is better than what comes with some Ui2 bikes and this drastically effects the slickness, change this and the systems feel very much the same.
Technologically speaking Di2 is easier to modify as you can just rip out components and replace them as such if you wish to modify its a better starting point.
Ui2 is technologically better and feels more modular from using the CANbus standard. The wiring is dual core on Ui2 rather than quad core which renders the systems incompatible.
The Ui2 electric has a signal modulated over the dc supply line and you can not simply replace the battery for example. You require a small circuit board from the components which feature a chip for the system to recognize the custom component.
You can mod Ui2 but its just a bit more tricky than Di2... Which ever way you go the important thing to note is that the systems are not compatible with one another.

Both are great systems though and very slick

 

[Mr Haematocrit]

Forgot to mention as well, when modifying Ui2 the only manner in which you can obtain the small circuit board and chip required by the system is to break it out of a standard component. This can make modding Ui2 more expensive than Di2 as you do not have second hand parts to sell on generally.