E bikes that look like motorbikes ?

[Vantage]

It's already been said several times, but I'll say it again. Ebikes, legal or not are just as silent as non ebikes. They sure as hell aren't faster than mx bikes either. If they'd been on normal road bikes and the driver just pulled out, would the cyclists still be at fault? No. We'd all be up in arms about the driver failing to look properly. Let's not pretend that having a battery and motor (regardless of its power) allows a cyclist to sneak up on a driver or pedestrian any more than a leg powered bike. That's just stupid.

 

[classic33]

Lads have always whizzed about on illegal MX bikes for years, just they are way faster now, and leccy ones are silent (more or less). Local village faceache page gone mental, fair few saying kama as they were ragging up and down all day, some saying 'didn't you do daft stuff as a kid' - not whizzing about on an illegal bike on the road though ? There are places to do this - MTB'ing off road where it's permitted, etc. All very sad.

Even the number of motorbikes and quads, on the roads, have increased in numbers in recent years.
The riders seem to be made of rubber. They bounce, unfortunately the people they hit don't.

 

[classic33]

It's already been said several times, but I'll say it again. Ebikes, legal or not are just as silent as non ebikes. If they'd been on normal road bikes and the driver just pulled out, would the cyclists still be at fault? No. We'd all be up in arms about the driver failing to look properly. Let's not pretend that having a battery and motor (regardless of its power) allows a cyclist to sneak up on a driver or pedestrian any more than a leg powered bike. That's just stupid.

It doesn't mean the driver should get off free, that'd be wrong. But thhere is a problem that doesn't seem to be mentioned.

Neither the e-scooters or e-bikes, if illegal, are covered by the MIB. The scooters used in the trials, are underwritten by an insurance group (name has been posted before). Therefore any incident involving an illegal vehicle, is going to leave people with no-one to pay for any damage done, other than themselves.

The "advantage" to the mopeds/motorbikes that look like a normal e-assist bike, is just that. They look like an ordinary bicycle*. And it's the person in charge that adds to that problem. They don't care about anyone else, and it shows in the way they ride them.

*This can only add to the clamour for all cyclists to undergo training, have insurance, and a means of identifying the bike and rider. It's just a bike after all.

Maybe we should start trying to distance ourselves from these type of vehicles! There's a local school that has had charging points for scooters and e-assist bicycles installed. Done with help from the West Yorkshire mayor. The kids using them are under the legal age requirements, the scooters are outside of any trial. They leave the school aged 11.

 

[Vantage]

*This can only add to the clamour for all cyclists to undergo training, have insurance, and a means of identifying the bike and rider. It's just a bike after all.

This is what I'm getting at though. If we start saying one of the problems with overpowered illegal ebikes is that they're silent, if any future changes in the law to deal with these things includes the noise issue, those same rules might also be applied to those of us who ride perfectly legal ebikes and non ebikes because they too are silent or near silent.
And maybe we shouldn't taint the owners of such less than legal ebikes with the same brush either. My own bike unrestricted will currently do 23.5 mph under throttle. I've fitted a smaller chain ring. With the original ring I had 25 mph out of it and I have no doubt whatsoever that with a bigger ring, 30mph would also be easily achieved. I've ridden it quite a few times unrestricted and it took no more than a cable and free software to do that. It's not exactly difficult. Does that then mean I'm a law breaking low life with no regard for anyone else's safety? Not really. I wonder how many of us have lived squeaky clean lives?
How do we deal with the not so legal versions of ebikes? No idea. I originally had an idea of making these things and overpowered motor kits being illegal to sell to the public unless one could show they had a licence and insurance. To my horror, I today found out its perfectly legal to buy a car without a licence or insurance.

 

[classic33]

This is what I'm getting at though. If we start saying one of the problems with overpowered illegal ebikes is that they're silent, if any future changes in the law to deal with these things includes the noise issue, those same rules might also be applied to those of us who ride perfectly legal ebikes and non ebikes because they too are silent or near silent.
And maybe we shouldn't taint the owners of such less than legal ebikes with the same brush either. My own bike unrestricted will currently do 23.5 mph under throttle. I've fitted a smaller chain ring. With the original ring I had 25 mph out of it and I have no doubt whatsoever that with a bigger ring, 30mph would also be easily achieved. I've ridden it quite a few times unrestricted and it took no more than a cable and free software to do that. It's not exactly difficult. Does that then mean I'm a law breaking low life with no regard for anyone else's safety? Not really. I wonder how many of us have lived squeaky clean lives?
How do we deal with the not so legal versions of ebikes? No idea. I originally had an idea of making these things and overpowered motor kits being illegal to sell to the public unless one could show they had a licence and insurance. To my horror, I today found out its perfectly legal to buy a car without a licence or insurance.

It's perfectly legal to sell the parts required to make an illegal ebike, as it is to buy a complete bike.

It becomes illegal when you use it outside of the parameters set. In much the same way it would be to buy a car without insurance or a license. It's using them in the condition they were sold that's illegal.

Once you're in your car, how much of what actually happens outside do you hear?

What is needed is for a nationwide crackdown on the illegal ones out there. And an easy starting point would be the point of sale. Selling something that's illegal to use on a public highway. We have schemes in shops where you've to prove your age, booze, knives, fireworks, and the seller can be prosecuted for selling them. Why not the same for these?

 

[Vantage]

It's perfectly legal to sell the parts required to make an illegal ebike, as it is to buy a complete bike.

It becomes illegal when you use it outside of the parameters set. In much the same way it would be to buy a car without insurance or a license. It's using them in the condition they were sold that's illegal.

Once you're in your car, how much of what actually happens outside do you hear?

What is needed is for a nationwide crackdown on the illegal ones out there. And an easy starting point would be the point of sale. Selling something that's illegal to use on a public highway. We have schemes in shops where you've to prove your age, booze, knives, fireworks, and the seller can be prosecuted for selling them. Why not the same for these?

That's what I'm saying

 

[youngoldbloke]

This is what I'm getting at though. If we start saying one of the problems with overpowered illegal ebikes is that they're silent, if any future changes in the law to deal with these things includes the noise issue, those same rules might also be applied to those of us who ride perfectly legal ebikes and non ebikes because they too are silent or near silent.
And maybe we shouldn't taint the owners of such less than legal ebikes with the same brush either. My own bike unrestricted will currently do 23.5 mph under throttle. I've fitted a smaller chain ring. With the original ring I had 25 mph out of it and I have no doubt whatsoever that with a bigger ring, 30mph would also be easily achieved. I've ridden it quite a few times unrestricted and it took no more than a cable and free software to do that. It's not exactly difficult. Does that then mean I'm a law breaking low life with no regard for anyone else's safety? Not really. I wonder how many of us have lived squeaky clean lives?
How do we deal with the not so legal versions of ebikes? No idea. I originally had an idea of making these things and overpowered motor kits being illegal to sell to the public unless one could show they had a licence and insurance. To my horror, I today found out its perfectly legal to buy a car without a licence or insurance.

But were you pedalling? If so how could anyone tell it was unrestricted? I was riding my legal, restricted bike at over 20 mph for long stretches drafting in the group on Sunday. I don't see how you can tell whether an e-bike is legal or otherwise just by its speed. One can have one's suspicions of course, particularly if said bike is hurtling up a steep incline unassisted by the rider's pedalling.

 

[CXRAndy]

I've ridden, various e-bikes, some standard, others modified, capable of 30mph. You burn through the battery reserves so fast at higher speeds, its not worth it for longer rides. I found myself and my mates confirm,17-21mph is speed to ride at, remain sweat free and have a fair range.

Its very nice to float along with a small amount of assist, hit and hill and carry on up with no fuss or deep effort.

I think if the UK was to mirror the USA for speed limit assist at 20mph, then the vast majority of users would fall into 'legal' use.

 

[fossyant]

I can ride my non assisted pedal bike fast enough, well in excess of what an ebike can do, but at least I comply with the law and excede it as I have insurance if I cock up and hit someone or something.

Thing is if this lot hit anyone, they get away with it. They won't have insurance of any sort.

Yesterday's 40 miler I did was on average, in excess of an ebike speed

 

[Vantage]

I'm not insured on either my ebike or my non ebike.
If I hit someone they're f**ked either way.

 

[Solocle]

I can ride my non assisted pedal bike fast enough, well in excess of what an ebike can do, but at least I comply with the law and excede it as I have insurance if I cock up and hit someone or something.

Thing is if this lot hit anyone, they get away with it. They won't have insurance of any sort.

Yesterday's 40 miler I did was on average, in excess of an ebike speed

The last big ride I did was up to London. First 100 miles to Egham were at 25.6 km/h, and it dropped to 25.2 km/h with the final 20 miles to Waterloo. Still faster than a legal e-bike

Top speed was 70 km/h on Winchester Rd Basingstoke. Also notable was 60 km/h into a dip, probably surprised the Vespa coming the other way that I was above moped speeds

 

[CXRAndy]

Big ride there

You did expend nearly 8000 calories, which is huge.

I did a ride a fair while back, not as big as that, maybe 65 miles. I didn't break out of Z2 HR , so felt fresh as a daisy.

 

[boydj]

Some of the commenters above seem to believe that legal e-bike speeds are restricted - they're not. It's only the assistance that is restricted and cuts out above 15.5mph. If the rider's legs are capable and the terrain allows, e-bikes are capable of the same speeds as any ordinary bike. I've seen close to 50mph on mine on a big downhill - though it was a lot easier to get to the top of the hill to be able to achieve this.

With the assistance turned off, the best e-bikes ride very much like any other road bike - only the weight will give the game away.

 

[CXRAndy]

True, I've ridden at 17-19mph with mine on the flats, but at 35kg and upto 50kg loaded with shopping it does slow quickly on inclines

 

[the snail]

Yesterday's 40 miler I did was on average, in excess of an ebike speed

I think it's scandalous that you can ride at such dangerous speeds without a licence and helmet etc. It's this sort of irresponsible behaviour that gets Shapps and the daily mail all worked up.