It's on days like these.....

[swansonj]

OT, but just out of interest, which is the post TMN refers to in your sig, SJ?

Ah. I wouldn't use that sig line is I thought there was any serious disagreement between TMN and myself. It was on a thread about the evils of tailgating (those cursed cars again...). I recounted how, on work journeys by car, I improved my mpg by slipstreaming lorries. My point was supposed to be that, even when seeking that benefit, I still didn't get ridiculously close to them. I'm guessing, however, that I managed to give TMN the impression of driving along ten feet from the tailgate of a lorry at 60mph....

 

[wiggydiggy]

Hey, don't know about Leeds, but here in Glasgow I feel much safer cycling through the park late at night after a shift instead of taking the bus.
What a nightmare late night public transport is, used it for many years!
I mean, got headphones on, my nose in a book, still the smelly drunk pub goer wants to talk to me .... bleuchh

Well there are some late night cyclists: http://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co....clist-was-armed-with-pair-of-knives-1-5596831

Joking aside the night bus's can be drunken dens of shouty peeps yes, but if more normal people were willing to use rather than the drunken 16-25 age groups that was so prevalent that might be different.

 

[subaqua]

Late Night Cycle Commutes and Public Transport

This has been mentioned a little but has got missed....

Central London has been mooted as an example of where it is possible, and almost popular, to commute at unsocial hours on a bicycle. But when I tried that (Leeds) I felt very vulnerable being (a) the only cyclist I saw and (b) a tendency for driving standards to fall. So unsocial hours cycling is not always safe for all.

Which leads to one alternative then - public transport - but unfortunately it is not viable as in many towns and cities it stops as around 2200-2300. My own city has scrapped all but 1 of its night bus and that only runs term time (for the universities).

So we're left with cars, either our own or a taxi. That can change, for instance in Leeds a call for the night bus's return is gathering strength but I think too often people perhaps are victims of taking the easy (or seen to be easy) way out of using a car.

I do feel BTW given the tone of the topic that I need to state it is not as simple as someone being either pro bike or pro car, but simply we should try to adopt a sensible attitude to our life choices whatever they may be.

I used to commute at silly o clock on a bike on unlit rural roads in North Wales. They have some wild weather there too , its not limited to Scotland. I was peer pressured into getting a car at 18, it wasn't long after that i started smoking too . wish i had had some more willpower and decided against getting a car and just got my licence . would be a damn sight fitter and healthier .

no problem with people choosing things, but please don't say you NEED a car, when what you mean is you WANT to use a car.

 

[Wobblers]

Not at all, your points are perfectly valid, and you concede that "a car is not a necessity for most people. Unquestionably it is for some" (although I would reverse your "most" and "some"). You've got a long way to go before your attitude is as Taliban like as the rabid anti-car brigade on here.

There is a big difference between someone in a wheelchair who needs a car to have a modicum of independence and someone who needs a car in order to avoid the perceived inconvenience of public transport. You cannot conflate convenience with need. Most people live in cities and towns with public transport. Most people, therefore, have an alternative. The issue, for most people, is one of quality of life as mcshroom has already pointed out. And on the question of "need", what would you prefer to have access to: a car, or a health service?

On the topic of "taliban like as the rabid anti-car brigade", I have to point out that absolutely no one has said that you ought to man up and cycle those windy 25 miles - come on, this isn't Bike Radar, you know! Indeed, all the insults have been in one direction only - from what I think fair to call the rabid car excusal lobby. It's odd how that lobby insist that their viewpoint must be the only right one - and regards any questioning of this as evidence of "rabid anti-car" attitudes, all while not condescending to accord those with other opinions the respect that they demand themselves. Or maybe not.

 

[Wobblers]

Late Night Cycle Commutes and Public Transport

This has been mentioned a little but has got missed....

Central London has been mooted as an example of where it is possible, and almost popular, to commute at unsocial hours on a bicycle. But when I tried that (Leeds) I felt very vulnerable being (a) the only cyclist I saw and (b) a tendency for driving standards to fall. So unsocial hours cycling is not always safe for all.

Which leads to one alternative then - public transport - but unfortunately it is not viable as in many towns and cities it stops as around 2200-2300. My own city has scrapped all but 1 of its night bus and that only runs term time (for the universities).

So we're left with cars, either our own or a taxi. That can change, for instance in Leeds a call for the night bus's return is gathering strength but I think too often people perhaps are victims of taking the easy (or seen to be easy) way out of using a car.

I do feel BTW given the tone of the topic that I need to state it is not as simple as someone being either pro bike or pro car, but simply we should try to adopt a sensible attitude to our life choices whatever they may be.

I do a lot miles late at night. This is entirely opposite to my experiences. I've found it much safer - the roads are quieter, vehicles give you very much more room, driving standards are better, if anything, I've never had anyone deliberately stand in my way playing chicken... It is in short a safer, more pleasant experience. There are quite a few people here who do late night commutes - they don't tend to report as many problems as the rush hour warriors.

 

[Wobblers]

I find older bearded men of few words, set in their ways with a grumpy disposition, quite endearing.
Can I adopt you as honorary Grampa? Mind, you need to be at least 90!

You've got Adrian down to a tee - are you sure you've not met him already?

Though I'm not quite sure that the word "endearing" would be the first to spring to mind were I to describe him.

 

[wiggydiggy]

I used to commute at silly o clock on a bike on unlit rural roads in North Wales. They have some wild weather there too , its not limited to Scotland. I was peer pressured into getting a car at 18, it wasn't long after that i started smoking too . wish i had had some more willpower and decided against getting a car and just got my licence . would be a damn sight fitter and healthier .

no problem with people choosing things, but please don't say you NEED a car, when what you mean is you WANT to use a car.

I didnt say that though did I ? But I was talking in general terms about the general populace where their choices seem to imply they dont want even public transport as an alternative to the car < thats why I linked the bus story where the council are blaming a lack of demand for the lack of night bus's.

I do a lot miles late at night. This is entirely opposite to my experiences. I've found it much safer - the roads are quieter, vehicles give you very much more room, driving standards are better, if anything, I've never had anyone deliberately stand in my way playing chicken... It is in short a safer, more pleasant experience. There are quite a few people here who do late night commutes - they don't tend to report as many problems as the rush hour warriors.

It was just my perception and comfortability with riding alone at that time, I've actually done some very rural rides late and through the night (sole and group) and felt fine.

It was only the commute, sharing space with drunken drivers and impatient taxis and being greeted by inebriated piss heads to whom the sight of a cyclist late at night is frankly as shocking as being beaten with a wet haddock that put me off.

I replaced the commute with a different job BTW.

 

[Pat "5mph"]

You've got Adrian down to a tee - are you sure you've not met him already?

Though I'm not quite sure that the word "endearing" would be the first to spring to mind were I to describe him.

Wouldn't know Adrian from Adam but "challenging" bearded over 50's men?
Adrian, would you like to meet BigCat?

 

[theclaud]

Adrian, would you like to meet BigCat?

Is this some kind of euphemism?

 

[Tim Hall]

Is this some kind of euphemism?

A friend of the Beer Kitty perhaps?

 

[Brandane]

Largs - Paisley? There's a damn fine train service that would be the envy of most of the country. On a bike the A760 is completely avoidable via the Lochwinnoch bike path. Damn fine tarmac.

Of course it's your choice...

OK, have a look at the timetable and tell me how to get to Paisley for 0630 on a Saturday or Sunday morning, in time for my shift which started at the airport, at 0700. I'll save you the time; the first train from Largs arrives at 0727 on a Saturday, 0946 on a Sunday. So the train service is fine (when they haven't suspended the service for any number of weather related reasons) ..... as long as you have a nice wee office job Mon/Fri 9-5.

The Lochwinnoch bike path is indeed a fine facility to have on our doorstep. Unfortunately it tends to be covered in snow and ice for several weeks at a time over the winter, and it never gets cleared until nature takes its course. Even with the ice spiked tyres on my MTB it is foolhardy to try and cycle on. And there is of course the small matter of the A760 to negotiate before you even get to Lochwinnoch.

Trust me, you, kerndog and brandane are making *far* bigger fools of yourselves than anyone else.

How do you work that one out? Just because I have different needs (ooops sorry - have made different life choices) to you and the rest of your gang? Just to reiterate; I can appreciate where you lot are coming from in NOT wanting to own a car, so what is your problem with accepting that other people might see things differently? Is it REALLY so difficult?

Your choice to have children.
Your choice to encourage one of them to play football (damn silly choice, BTW I there are far more interesting things for him to do of a Saturday).
Your choice to indulge him with a daddy-taxi each week rather than organise a minibus for the team, or car-sharing.

I don't see much necessity in any of those choices.

Can't believe what I'm reading now. Your credibility just sunk to new depths.

 

[Brandane]

no problem with people choosing things, but please don't say you NEED a car, when what you mean is you WANT to use a car.

What about people who DON'T want a car, but NEED one? I don't particularly WANT a car and all its associated hassle and expense, but I NEED one if I am going to make myself available to employers who want me to work shifts some considerable distance from home. That is the reality of MY situation, and good luck to those who find themselves in a different situation.

 

[Brandane]

Way-hey; the sun is out , there is no wind, and it's not freezing cold. I'm off to cycle round the Isle of Bute with a cycling buddy today. Trolls, keyboard warriors, and Taliban members; y'all have a nice day. At least try and get to the cave entrance so you can catch a glimpse of the sun .

Yes I had a very nice day out today thanks, I know theclaud & co. were wishing me well .
40 miles in the sunshine, cannae beat it .


But I wouldn't like to have to do it every day in all weathers, that's what cars are for.

 

[Pat "5mph"]

Is this some kind of euphemism?

A friend of the Beer Kitty perhaps?

BigCat: a cat version of Adrian?

 

[theclaud]

Yes I had a very nice day out today thanks, I know theclaud & co. were wishing me well .
40 miles in the sunshine, cannae beat it .


But I wouldn't like to have to do it every day in all weathers, that's what cars are for.

But of course! I am happy for anyone who is riding a bicycle in the sunshine.