Leaking tubeless system - should the bike shop fix it?

[fair weather cyclist]

Yes, but the point with the Giant ones is that they aren't sold as "tubeless ready", they are sold as "tubeless". They are already fully set up tubeless, including rim tape, valves and sealant.

wait, forgot another thing.

my partner also has a Giant, which came with tubeless ready rims but didn't come set up tubeless.

so, all in all, people should understand the difference between ready/compatible and should start using the right terminology. End of.

 

[Dogtrousers]

I didn't say what they are sold as, I said what is written on the rim. So, regardless of how I want to use it and how they are set up, if I read on a rim "tubeless ready" I expect the rim to have tubeless tape. Which is the point of this whole thread and the misunderstanding of tubeless ready/tubeless compatible.

And I think the lesson we should take from this is that we shouldn't rely on other people using these terms to mean what we think they should mean. And we should check what the other party actually means before buying anything.

I'm pretty confident I know what I think they mean. But, especially after reading this thread, I'm not very confident that such an understanding is universal. So the next time I buy anything labelled this way I'll check with the vendor. Mind you, I'll have to wait for my current wheels wear out so it may be a while before I get the chance to put this lesson to use.

 

[Alex321]

wait, forgot another thing.

my partner also has a Giant, which came with tubeless ready rims but didn't come set up tubeless.

so, all in all, people should understand the difference between ready/compatible and should start using the right terminology. End of.

Your last statement is simply false. You can then say "end of" all you like, but it isn't people using the wrong terminology that is the issue here. It is companies using terminology to mean something which some people understand to mean something different.

It doesn't matter in the least what terminology you or I, or anybody else in this thread may use, that won't change what the companies use, and whether that is technically "right" or not is irrelevant, unless it is clearly misleading, when you might have a case under the Trade Descriptions Act or its successor.

Here, it is (as often with the English language), it is a bit of a murky area, and I would be surprised if you could get any court to agree.

I wouldn't sum it up this way

Perhaps you wouldn't, but it was an entirely accurate summary.

 

[Alex321]

I didn't say what they are sold as, I said what is written on the rim. So, regardless of how I want to use it and how they are set up, if I read on a rim "tubeless ready" I expect the rim to have tubeless tape. Which is the point of this whole thread and the misunderstanding of tubeless ready/tubeless compatible.

I wouldn't expect any rims sold as bare rims, or even as complete wheels, to have any tape, tubeless or otherwise. Unless they are sold with tyres fitted (which usually means as part of a complete bike), when I would expect the appropriate tape for the tyres.

Some manufacturers/dealers will sell wheels/rims with all relevant accessories, but it isn't something I would expect unless specifically advertised.

 

[PaulSB]

I wouldn't expect any rims sold as bare rims, or even as complete wheels, to have any tape, tubeless or otherwise. Unless they are sold with tyres fitted (which usually means as part of a complete bike), when I would expect the appropriate tape for the tyres.

Some manufacturers/dealers will sell wheels/rims with all relevant accessories, but it isn't something I would expect unless specifically advertised.

Exactly. 👏

 

[fair weather cyclist]

I wouldn't expect any rims sold as bare rims, or even as complete wheels, to have any tape, tubeless or otherwise. Unless they are sold with tyres fitted (which usually means as part of a complete bike), when I would expect the appropriate tape for the tyres.

Some manufacturers/dealers will sell wheels/rims with all relevant accessories, but it isn't something I would expect unless specifically advertised.

thankfully what companies do doesn't match your expectations otherwise we'd be all screwed

 

[fair weather cyclist]

Perhaps you wouldn't, but it was an entirely accurate summary.

Exactly, I don't think it was accurate at all.

Maybe accurate enough for you, but we all have different quality standards. Some want accuracy, some others are happy with wishy-washy

 

[T4tomo]

but still a fair bit less than you would probably put in tubed 28mm tyres.

And there lies the rub, the lower pressure you need to run at mean you don't get the reduced rolling resistance benefit of tubeless (which is a benefit you get at equivalent pressure). Rolling resistance is an odd thing anyway as in a test lab / perfect road higher pressure + less resistance. on a real road up to a point running slightly lower pressure has an advantage of smoothing out road surface imperfections up to a point. Even lower pressure then starts to increase rolling resistance.

What you do get is a comfort benefit from being able to run quite low pressures without the risk of pinch punctures, with the knowledge that you might travel a bit slower for same effort.

Penetration punctures I personally wouldn't factor into it. A decent set of puncture resistance tyres will give you similar protection to your tubeless sealant in the on road environment. If one is getting frequent punctures on a tubed setup, then the tyres are wrong.

Offroad on 35mm+ gravel / MTB tyres where you need to run lower pressure for grip away and then the argument swings in favour of tubeless as you all but eliminate the increased risk of pinch punctures at those pressures in a tubed set up, which is why the MTB world "invented" tubeless in the first place.

Just my view, but worth the OP considering before he spends money on a tubeless setup.

 

[Alex321]

Exactly, I don't think it was accurate at all.

Maybe accurate enough for you, but we all have different quality standards. Some want accuracy, some others are happy with wishy-washy

Perhaps you could tell us what you think was inaccurate about his summary then?
Which of the following points he made was incorrect?

1) Some 'tubeless ready' wheels come with everything you need

2) Some don't

3) Some people think they should

4) Some don't

5) It's confusing

 

[Alex321]

And there lies the rub, the lower pressure you need to run at mean you don't get the reduced rolling resistance benefit of tubeless (which is a benefit you get at equivalent pressure). Rolling resistance is an odd thing anyway as in a test lab / perfect road higher pressure + less resistance. on a real road up to a point running slightly lower pressure has an advantage of smoothing out road surface imperfections up to a point. Even lower pressure then starts to increase rolling resistance.

What you do get is a comfort benefit from being able to run quite low pressures without the risk of pinch punctures, with the knowledge that you might travel a bit slower for same effort.

My experience is that if anything, it is slightly faster. But not much in it TBH.

With tubes in 28mm tyres, I was normally running at around 95psi, tubeless I'm running around 80-85. Feels noticeably smoother, and certainly not noticeably slower.

The particular tyres I have are rated for anything between 74 and 100psi.

 

[Alex321]

thankfully what companies do doesn't match your expectations otherwise we'd be all screwed

I have no idea why you believe either part of that.

Why would be beall screwed just because we need to buy rim tape, valves & sealant if we want to go tubeless?

 

[fair weather cyclist]

Perhaps you could tell us what you think was inaccurate about his summary then?
Which of the following points he made was incorrect?

For once, if you want to make an accurate and correct summary, you need to introduce the concept of "tubeless compatible", which was not even mentioned.

 

[Alex321]

For once, if you want to make an accurate and correct summary, you need to introduce the concept of "tubeless compatible", which was not even mentioned.

What he said was accurate and correct, just maybe not quite complete.

Yes, he could have added something about "tubeless compatible" to make it more complete.

 

[HLaB]

Although the original tape wouldn't hold air, it does look like tubeless tape to me.

I had a similar set up and thought the same. I just added a little extra tubeless rim tape over the valve (about 2-3 inches either side) and three months later there has been no leakage, touchwood.

 

[fair weather cyclist]

What he said was accurate and correct, just maybe not quite complete.

Yes, he could have added something about "tubeless compatible" to make it more complete.

Something cannot be "more complete". It's either complete or not