Nissan Leaf - what do we think?

[icowden]

I doubt you would get any useful range at all towing an unaerodynamic , 1.7-1.8 tonne twin axle caravan, it’s just not feasible

These guys managed 3700 miles towing a caravan with a Tesla X.

https://bensmann.no/towing-caravan-tesla-model-x-europe/

 

[cougie uk]

That's not what my work van has done, it's on 11,500 since coming back from new year, I don't think leasing firms would take too kindly to carrying old engine oil and toolboxes in a Tesla, never mind replacing the battery early, the list price is ridiculous too, I reckon I could kill an EV in under 5 years, the range for my job will be hopeless.

Thank god that 95% of us aren't doing 35,000 miles a year. You can't spend that much time at jobs with all those hours driving ?

 

[MrGrumpy]

These guys managed 3700 miles towing a caravan with a Tesla X.

https://bensmann.no/towing-caravan-tesla-model-x-europe/

Yep a lot more infrastructure in place I bet ? Again, the practicalities of towing with an EV or just not there yet. This switch over to full electric is a false dawn. Its not the panacea that seems to be spouted around. More electric cars more power needed for generation. I`ll wait till I have no choice whatsoever, can see the second hand market doing well on used fossil fuel cars.

 

[MrGrumpy]

It would be more environmentally friendly to just run our existing cars into the ground and then recycle the components,

I keep my cars quite long, never buy new. I`m a car salesman`s bad dream. My gas guzzling 9yr old Disco 4 will stay with us for as long as its financially viable. Its a workhorse it can carry tonnes of stuff. If i got rid the of the caravan that might change my outlook.

 

[icowden]

Yep a lot more infrastructure in place I bet ?

A lot more than what? America? UK?

>>Again, the practicalities of towing with an EV or just not there yet.<<

They managed 3700 miles towing with an EV. It's practical.

>> This switch over to full electric is a false dawn. Its not the panacea that seems to be spouted around. <<
It pretty much is.

>>More electric cars more power needed for generation. <<

They tend to be more efficient than gas guzzlers - so no - less power needed:

Despite more than 100 years of refinements, the internal combustion engine used in cars just isn’t that good at converting fuel into movement. Even in the most efficient petrol engines, only around 12-30 percent of the energy in the fuel ever makes it to the wheels or other useful functions. The rest is wasted as noise and heat.

Electric motors, by contrast, are more like 77 percent efficient – they get more than twice as many miles out of the same amount of energy. This efficiency gap is so big that even in Poland where most electricity comes from coal-fired power stations, electric cars emit about 25% less carbon than their fossil fuelled equivalents.

>>I`ll wait till I have no choice whatsoever, can see the second hand market doing well on used fossil fuel cars.<<

Fair enough. Personally I can't wait to go greener and cleaner.

 

[DRM]

Yep a lot more infrastructure in place I bet ? Again, the practicalities of towing with an EV or just not there yet. This switch over to full electric is a false dawn. Its not the panacea that seems to be spouted around. More electric cars more power needed for generation. I`ll wait till I have no choice whatsoever, can see the second hand market doing well on used fossil fuel cars.

They only got 125 miles between charges, with no wriggle room,my old 200Tdi Disco could realistically tow a similarly sized caravan from West Yorkshire, to Portsmouth, catch the ferry, and fill up again in France, 2x ex MOD Jerry cans of diesel would get us from Cherbourg to the Southern Vendee without having to fill up till Monday AM when the fuel stations reopened, so around 500 miles with one 20 minute stop to refuel, with diesel left over, the Tesla would need 4x stops at an hour a go, not good if the traffic backs up and it looks like you might miss your crossing, the future? I think not.

 

[DRM]

Thank god that 95% of us aren't doing 35,000 miles a year. You can't spend that much time at jobs with all those hours driving ?

Around 28,000 a year, and yes for my job, careful planning and hitting a post code area means I’m doing around 90 jobs per month, EV in van form would be hopeless

 

[DRM]

>>Again, the practicalities of towing with an EV or just not there yet.<<

They managed 3700 miles towing with an EV. It's practical.

But how long did it take to do that, Max range 125 miles, not good enough, and that was at best, Chuck a windy day into the equation and they might as well give up, 3700 miles is 30 stops and 30 hours of refuelling, compare that with 8 stops, and probably 2.5 hours taken to do it with an elderly Disco, as for having to unhitch the caravan, in Britain I’d guarantee it would be stolen, with no comeback from your insurance.

 

[MrGrumpy]

I dare say we are a minority in what we require from our vehicles. However it will need addressed, towing with a EV is a way off. However hybrid might be the option for us. Do the new rules due to come in also mean the end of hybrids ? Talking about the sale of new vehicles of course.

 

[MrGrumpy]

They managed 3700 miles towing with an EV. It's practical.

Not in one go did they !?


>> This switch over to full electric is a false dawn. Its not the panacea that seems to be spouted around. <<
It pretty much is.

Congestion is not going to disappear with electric cars so I rest my case !


>>More electric cars more power needed for generation. <<

They tend to be more efficient than gas guzzlers - so no - less power needed:



>>I`ll wait till I have no choice whatsoever, can see the second hand market doing well on used fossil fuel cars.<<

Fair enough. Personally I can't wait to go greener and cleaner.

I’ll do my bit , like to think by cycle commuting I’m doing my bit . Rather than driving . ( albeit new puppy is stopping that :-) )

 

[TheDoctor]

To answer a few points upthread...
Neodymium reserves are about 8 million tonnes source. A motor needs about 1 kg of neodymium, so we've got enough for everyone in the world to have an EV.
Towing a caravan a few thousand miles strikes me as a bit of an edge case, and certainly not something I'm planning on doing!
As for driving 28000 miles a year for work, that's about 110 miles a day (assuming 253 working days per year), That's easily doable in a Leaf or Ioniq, let alone something with a bigger range. Charge up overnight, and you've saved time going to fill up once a week.

 

[DRM]

To answer a few points upthread...
Neodymium reserves are about 8 million tonnes source. A motor needs about 1 kg of neodymium, so we've got enough for everyone in the world to have an EV.
Towing a caravan a few thousand miles strikes me as a bit of an edge case, and certainly not something I'm planning on doing!
As for driving 28000 miles a year for work, that's about 110 miles a day (assuming 253 working days per year), That's easily doable in a Leaf or Ioniq, let alone something with a bigger range. Charge up overnight, and you've saved time going to fill up once a week.

Not once you've loaded it up with tools, parts, service kits, sundries, lubricants, waste oil for return, 2x jacks and blocks, lifting slings & shackles, the range would fall off a cliff carrying that lot, then throw a cold, dark winters day in to just to add to the range reduction, so in my case it's pie in the sky, then try charging it up using someone else's electricity, whilst working as the van needs to be near the thing your working on, all companies I've been to that have charging points are provided for their (Directors) vehicles, in the car park, far away from the warehouse round the back, and not anyone else's use so your utterly stuffed.
The other thing is sometimes I'm local, sometimes I can be near the Scottish borders, average miles per day isn't the reality

 

[icowden]

But how long did it take to do that, Max range 125 miles, not good enough, and that was at best, Chuck a windy day into the equation and they might as well give up, 3700 miles is 30 stops and 30 hours of refuelling, compare that with 8 stops, and probably 2.5 hours taken to do it with an elderly Disco, as for having to unhitch the caravan, in Britain I’d guarantee it would be stolen, with no comeback from your insurance.

I'm impressed that you can drive 7 and 3 quarter hours in a day without stopping. I'd be exhausted. Stopping for 30 minutes after 2 hours drive seems sensible to me, if a little more frequent than one would like. The cost saving on fuel is immense though. Also remember that this was a 2017 Tesla X - Tesla have improved the range a *little* since then (but not a lot).

As I have said before, for the range that you want to do, you need a CyberTruck tri-motor with 500+ miles of range:-

https://www.driving.co.uk/news/tesl...ays the Cybertruck has,will have on the range.

 

[TheDoctor]

Not once you've loaded it up with tools, parts, service kits, sundries, lubricants, waste oil for return, 2x jacks and blocks, lifting slings & shackles, the range would fall off a cliff carrying that lot, then throw a cold, dark winters day in to just to add to the range reduction, so in my case it's pie in the sky, then try charging it up using someone else's electricity, whilst working as the van needs to be near the thing your working on, all companies I've been to that have charging points are provided for their (Directors) vehicles, in the car park, far away from the warehouse round the back, and not anyone else's use so your utterly stuffed.
The other thing is sometimes I'm local, sometimes I can be near the Scottish borders, average miles per day isn't the reality

You don't like the limitations of EVs. Yes, we get that
Seriously, sounds like my usage case is different to yours. I think we'll be fine.

 

[icowden]

Not once you've loaded it up with tools, parts, service kits, sundries, lubricants, waste oil for return, 2x jacks and blocks, lifting slings & shackles, the range would fall off a cliff carrying that lot, then throw a cold, dark winters day in to just to add to the range reduction, so in my case it's pie in the sky,

Nope - it's not pie in the sky, it's cybertruck tri-motor. 500+ miles can pull 7 tonnes. Large pickup style area for your waste oil etc.