Over powered bikes that are resticted.

[classic33]

Can you point me to a link where they say that please. CUK (or their insurers) say otherwise.
https://www.cyclinguk.org/sites/def...ual_third_party_guidance_note_2022-2023_1.pdf

As for the chances of your bike being impounded, agreed if it's minor it's unlikely, but if the incident is serious enough (remember Charlie Alliston?) or there's lot of money involved, trust me, they will investigate properly and they'll take good care of the bike. It's evidence, the police are good at keeping evidence.

That piece is correctly worded, and clearly states
"You are covered if you are cycling on a cycle (unicycle, bicycle, tricycle, tandem, triplet, quadracycle, cargo bike or adapted cycle) unless it is driven by mechanical power other than electric assistance."
Meaning a petrol engine powered cycle wouldn't be covered.

You'll note that quadracycles are now covered, as per the current regulations. I queried that piece when the regulations changed to include quadracycles on the EPAC rules.

 

[classic33]

And Charlie Alliston, he was on illegal bike, no front brake, to make the bike legal for road use.

 

[rogerzilla]

Round here, it's mostly teenage thugs and drug runners that use the illegal bikes. Compared to their other activities, the remote possibility of being nicked for riding an electric motorcycle is not a concern for them.

 

[ebikeerwidnes]

Where does this expectation that e-bikes should be able to breeze up hills at 15mph, or more, come from?

I may be misinformed or mistaken, but I always assumed that e-bikes had been allowed to be used under the same rules as a standard person powered bicycle because they enabled less able, less fit, or more elderly people to complete journeys safely at a speed similar to 'normal' cyclists so not really posing any greater risk to the public?

Now I consider myself to be substantially fitter than a typical commuting cyclist so not really 'normal' and quite good at climbing. I'm also 'only' 50 years old so not what I class as elderly and have had fairly steady fitness over the last couple of decades, but I have two hills on my commute which while not what I would call steep certainly slow even me down to around single figures. The first is about 1/2 a mile at 4%'ish and is often done at about 12mph with a massive effort required to get to and maintain 15mph all the way up that results in me cresting the top breathing hard, sweating profusely and feeling stretched. The second is shorter at approx 1/3rd of a mile but a bit steeper at 5% and this often sees me at 9-10mph (or less if I am particularly tired).

As I said, I consider myself a strong rider. I don't train or compete but I would expect most utility cyclists to be a couple of MPH slower than me up these minor hills and we would all be slower if the gradient increased.

Why should an e-bike be any faster than this?

Yes- exactly
The point in a legal ebike should be
a) to enable older or less fit people to still enjoy cycling at a normal speed for a leisure rider

b) to make commuting by bike feasible in circumstances where arriving at work sweaty is not acceptable

Not to allow people to ride around with little or no effort up every hill they want
If you want to go up alp d'huez on 2 wheels without pedalling then you need a motorbike! (smaller hills are available)


It does annoy me when people go on about - and launch petitions about - increasing the cut off speed and increasing the motor power becuase they "need" to be able to keep up with cars and/or get up hills using a throttle - that goes against the concept that a legal ebike is treated as "just a bicycle"

and teh fact that a fit cyclist who rides every day and trains every weekend can maintain 20 mph does not mean that all ebikes should be allowed to keep up with them!

 

[rogerzilla]

Legal e-bikes are still terrifyingly fast uphill. We chased and eventually caught an older chap on a slight climb, and it took ages (we didn't see the hub motor until we were right behind him). 15mph is quick up even a modest hill.

 

[cougie uk]

Legal e-bikes are still terrifyingly fast uphill. We chased and eventually caught an older chap on a slight climb, and it took ages (we didn't see the hub motor until we were right behind him). 15mph is quick up even a modest hill.

I was saying to my mate that if we go a month without any Strava achievements we know it's time to get ebikes. Met three blokes on very nice e road bikes in Ruthin last weekend and they loved their bikes.

 

[Dadam]

Legal e-bikes are still terrifyingly fast uphill. We chased and eventually caught an older chap on a slight climb, and it took ages (we didn't see the hub motor until we were right behind him). 15mph is quick up even a modest hill.

"Terrifyingly"

Yep, absolutely brown trousers territory!

 

[youngoldbloke]

Yes- exactly
The point in a legal ebike should be
a) to enable older or less fit people to still enjoy cycling at a normal speed for a leisure rider

b) to make commuting by bike feasible in circumstances where arriving at work sweaty is not acceptable

Not to allow people to ride around with little or no effort up every hill they want
If you want to go up alp d'huez on 2 wheels without pedalling then you need a motorbike! (smaller hills are available)


It does annoy me when people go on about - and launch petitions about - increasing the cut off speed and increasing the motor power becuase they "need" to be able to keep up with cars and/or get up hills using a throttle - that goes against the concept that a legal ebike is treated as "just a bicycle"

and teh fact that a fit cyclist who rides every day and trains every weekend can maintain 20 mph does not mean that all ebikes should be allowed to keep up with them!

Can you or anyone else define 'a normal speed for a leisure rider'? Come to that what is 'a leisure rider', and what is a normal speed for that mythical rider at age 25, 40, 60, 75? Remember legal ebikes can go as fast as your legs can propel them, assisted by the motor up to 15.5 mph, and that ultimate speed will depend on your fitness and strength or otherwise of your leg muscles. The other moot point is that unassisted bikes can be and are ridden irresponsibly on shared paths. Not just ebikes, illegal or otherwise.
I try to ride my e-road bike much as I rode my unassisted road bikes before the need for assistance arose. I try to behave much as any unassisted rider does in a club group - if you go shooting off the front up every hill you'll soon be unpopular, and yes I would welcome a couple of mph assistance to stay with the group on long flats when the groups speed creeps up to 18 - 20 mph plus. I think I could handle it after riding road bikes for well over 60 years.
- and please please don't tell me that I should get an e-moped or motorbike - that really isn't cycling for me.

 

[fossyant]

Legal e-bikes are still terrifyingly fast uphill. We chased and eventually caught an older chap on a slight climb, and it took ages (we didn't see the hub motor until we were right behind him). 15mph is quick up even a modest hill.

Don't start me on e-MTB's coming flying past on a technical climb, or a long drag. Be nice if some would actually let you know of their presence. Saw a young lad on a £3k plus decent E-MTB on our caravan site. Why, he's a kid, best off on a normal bike at his age.

 

[Electric_Andy]

Not to allow people to ride around with little or no effort up every hill they want

That's exactly what they should be for. Why is it so "dangerous" to go up a hill at 15mph, when I used to go down hills at 40 on my road bike? Sounds like you are trying to exclude anyone not fit enough to ride up hills. I'm not saying anything about the max cut-off speed. I'm saying getting up a 20% hill without pedalling would open up a whole world of emission-free transport to lots of people who would otherwise be put off by sustained and heavy exercise. My 2015 Wisper bike (which was £1500) could not even manage a hill on its own, which made it a very expensive and heavy regular bike for all but 5% of the ride.

I do have a full motorcycle license and can get a scooter, so I'm not campaigning for my own needs, but this all smacks of cycling elitism where we some want greener transport but not if "cheaters" can buy their way into effortless fun with an ebike. More power, legally, would enable unfit people to choose a smaller and more convenient form or trasnport, or leisure, where they would otherwsie be exclluded because of poor fitness or health problems

 

[youngoldbloke]

I don't agree with 'getting up a 20% hill without pedalling' . That would mean no pedalling needed at any point. I'm quite happy with the requirement to turn the pedals to make progress, the electrics only providing assistance, and little more.

 

[fossyant]

Can you or anyone else define 'a normal speed for a leisure rider'? Come to that what is 'a leisure rider', and what is a normal speed for that mythical rider at age 25, 40, 60, 75? Remember legal ebikes can go as fast as your legs can propel them, assisted by the motor up to 15.5 mph, and that ultimate speed will depend on your fitness and strength or otherwise of your leg muscles. The other moot point is that unassisted bikes can be and are ridden irresponsibly on shared paths. Not just ebikes, illegal or otherwise.
I try to ride my e-road bike much as I rode my unassisted road bikes before the need for assistance arose. I try to behave much as any unassisted rider does in a club group - if you go shooting off the front up every hill you'll soon be unpopular, and yes I would welcome a couple of mph assistance to stay with the group on long flats when the groups speed creeps up to 18 - 20 mph plus. I think I could handle it after riding road bikes for well over 60 years.
- and please please don't tell me that I should get an e-moped or motorbike - that really isn't cycling for me.

There isn't a 'definitive' answer. Let's go back to the OP, he wanted a non-legal e-bike for the short 6 mile commute so they arrived "fresh". For an in-experienced rider, suddenly being propelled at 20 mph or more, without proper road sense, or having ridden a bike around pedestrians is dangerous. I encounter a number of home-brew e-bikes every day, and 100% are generally ridden too fast for the conditions on shared use paths, and blast past you without saying they are passing for example.

There has to be a cut off for speed assist, much more than 15.5 and you are getting into motorbike territory, and rightly needs insurance and VED. Riding a 'normal' bike much over 15 mph starts to get increasingly harder as wind resistance ramps up.

It's down to responsibility - like what I said above, having an e-MTB blast past you at 15 mph when you'll be doing 5 mph on a long steep climb but the rider is inexperienced and doesn't alert you or pass with space.

 

[lazybloke]

Yes, going back to the OP...

I want to be able to get to work without arriving there hot, sweaty and in need of a change of clothes and a shower. .

Didn't read the entire thread but saw there was a 6 mile route. Doesn't seem a large distance, and unless there's a specific requirement that demands an ebike, I wondered if a conventional bike had been attempted first - that was my choice.

I just rode slowly the morning to avoid arriving as a hot mess. I didn't feel a need to shower, and no-one ever commented.
I did change once at work though, it helped me feel fresh, and it meant I was a bit more comfortable on the bike.
Then change back for the ride home, which could be done at a much faster speed.

Whatever your choice of bike/ebike, I'd consider route very carefully. I opted for a longer distance to give a more enjoyable commute (more rural, far less traffic).

 

[Pale Rider]

I'm in favour of compliance with the law, but too many replies have a large element of worrying about what the other bloke is up to.

 

[ebikeerwidnes]

The arguments about providing emission free transport is not valid because electric motorbikes and scooters are available

it is all down to the speed and climbing ability without putting in much effort

WHich is a moped not a bicycle