Boiler problem

[Blue Hills]

A heat wave here down south, 30 plus, so I've got the central heating on.

Reason?

The pilot light on my boiler keeps going out and can be a pig to relight.

The boiler hasn't been serviced for a while and I know there is muck in it.

Am hoping that having the heating on (though all radiators are off so it's just warming the pipes I assume) will help to clear the system/tubes. (yes I'm not technical)

I have noticed of late the pilot light is orange - not good?

Signs of what?

Reason I am posting is I am keen to narrow the problem down in case an engineer tries to give me a load of old flannel - particularly as it is an old boiler - a Saunier Duval. More info on it if anyone interesed/may possible have same model.

So if the pilot goes out and is running orange but the boiler works (once I have managed to get the pilot going) and heats the hot water and the radiators, the boiler is essentially OK isn't it and I just need the pilot light seen to?

I stopped the British Gas maintenance contract some time ago as they told me the bits were no longer available, wanted to flog me a new boiler, but couldn't answer my simple question about which particular bits were problematical. So I saw them as more salespeople than engineers.

Also, a bit before I terminated the contract, they had come to do the yearly check, given it a cursory look, said it was fine, and then soon afterwards it started making a terrible howling sound. After my callout an entirely different engineer came, hoovered out a lot of crap that was in the casing and promptly solved it, But they couldn't answer my simple question about why this hoovering of crap hadn't happened on the check-up visit just two or three weeks before.

So, my issue is a pilot that is going out, can be hard to restart (didn't used to be) , burns orange, and the howling has returned when it's set to heat the radiators** so just maybe muck cleaning. But the boiler works when going.

Should be a pretty simple job/not expensive?



** I used to be able to stop this howling by opening the kitchen hot tap, then shutting it off - this produced some sort of "woosh" in the boiler and the problem stopped for a fair while, But this doesn't really work much at the mo.

Thanks in anticipation (and must surely be simpler than some modern bike problems )

edit - if relevant - it's a combi boiler I believe - hasn't been doing much for months (I have very low gas bills) as it's just been firing up when I open hot taps and have a shower.

 

[Globalti]

That probably means the water pressure is low in your system.

 

[Blue Hills]

Many thanks for the reply globalti, but I am not aware of any low water pressure in general to the house at the mo.

(and such things are common in my leak prone part of SE London)

or are you referring to some separate water pressure issue within the boiler itself?

Must say I am doubtful about this being the cause - as the boiler has I admit been neglected the last few years. and would that cause pilot light issues, especially to do with its colour?

thanks again.

 

[Levo-Lon]

Its a gas boiler.
It can kill you and others around you.

Stop fooking about and get it checked.

Seriously get it che ked as yellow flame may be a blocked flue.. Very dangerous

 

[vickster]

Its a gas boiler.
It can kill you and others around you.

Stop fooking about and get it checked.

Seriously get it che ked as yellow flame may be a blocked flue.. Very dangerous

This is very sound advice...CO is not a good thing to have floating around (assume you have a CO detector by your elderly boiler??)

A yellow or orange pilot light will produce carbon monoxide – an odourless, colourless gas that can fill your home and cause carbon monoxide poisoning. ... Yellow pilot lights mean that the gas-to-air mixture in your gas boiler is incorrect and that too much air is getting into the system.

If that’s the case, I’d be prepared for it to be condemned if it’s too old or fooked to be fixed

 

[Blue Hills]

This is very sound advice...CO is not a good thing to have floating around (assume you have a CO detector by your elderly boiler??)

A yellow or orange pilot light will produce carbon monoxide – an odourless, colourless gas that can fill your home and cause carbon monoxide poisoning. ... Yellow pilot lights mean that the gas-to-air mixture in your gas boiler is incorrect and that too much air is getting into the system.

If that’s the case, I’d be prepared for it to be condemned if it’s too old or fooked to be fixed

Thanks for the advice vickster but "condemned" seems a bit strong.
Surely it just needs cleaning and the mix adjusted?
And maybe a thermocouple cleaned or sorted?
Will definitely call someone to it but as I say am trying to suss the underlying issue so that I don't get spun a line.
British Gas effectively tried to condemn it years ago and it was entirely clear to me that they were talking absolute rubbish.
For their own interests.

 

[vickster]

Who knows. Depends if it’s dangerous.
Find a well regarded local gas engineer. I agree on BG. Blacklisted them years ago

I said be prepared for it to be condemned. But don’t mess around with your safety and others around you!

What’s your CO detector suggesting?

 

[Blue Hills]

Boiler running at mo.
New CO2 alarm fired up - no alarm.

 

[Levo-Lon]

Thanks for the advice vickster but "condemned" seems a bit strong.
Surely it just needs cleaning and the mix adjusted?
And maybe a thermocouple cleaned or sorted?
Will definitely call someone to it but as I say am trying to suss the underlying issue so that I don't get spun a line.
British Gas effectively tried to condemn it years ago and it was entirely clear to me that they were talking absolute rubbish.
For their own interests.

Problem is most boilers are obsolete after 20 yrs, and nowadays there all good for about 10.

The BG engineer may have had your safety and welfare foremost in his advice.

Turn it off at the gas stop cock and let it be tested properly.

Co2 danger, explosion also a possibility with a pilot light being dodgy.

 

[vickster]

Boiler running at mo.
New CO2 alarm fired up - no alarm.

CO

 

[ColinJ]

CO alarm, CO danger - CO2 is carbon DIoxide! (Beaten by vickster while typing!)

Yellow/orange flames are BAD! (I think that the quote by vickster is wrong though - having plenty of air should mean that gas burns properly.)

I wouldn't recommend taking chances with CO - I almost died from CO poisoning and never fully recovered from it. And as an example of that, I have no memory of THIS! (I was searching for some mention of the incident, but had forgotten that I had started a thread on the subject!)

 

[vickster]

Some more cheerful reading on the dangers of CO

https://www.merseyfire.gov.uk/aspx/pages/prevention/heating.aspx

 

[Blue Hills]

CO

Ah yes - I knew what I meant to type/say.

(Unless it's already getting to me)

 

[Blue Hills]

(I think that the quote by vickster is wrong though - having plenty of air should mean that gas burns properly.))

That's my understanding - incomplete combustion.

Thanks for your concern folks - am well aware of perils of carbon MONOoxide - would never in a million years cook in a tent or even porch for instance.

 

[Brains]

Yellow Flame = Incomplete combustion
Could be blocked flue, or a pilot light that needs cleaning

If you increase the draft does the flame go blue ?
(ie you are introducing extra oxygen)
Methods to do this are blow into a straw close to the flame, or use a bike pump, or the vacuum cleaner on blow.

You could try blasting it out with air pressure (bike pump or vacuum cleaner) which may fix the issue short term, but ultimately you must get the boiler looked at by a trained engineer.
As others have said: CO2 can be lethal

Seeing you are in my neck of the woods I can give you details of a very good local one we use on all our properties.
As an FYI - Given the very hard water in our area, any boiler that is over 10 years old is running on borrowed time.

Also:
Every year, around the 2nd week of September, every boiler repair company in London goes into overtime as all those boilers that have not been used for the last 5 months get fired up and pump sludge around and then fail.
Getting hold of a fitter, parts or new boiler in September and October is always a nightmare !
Get in now !