"Granny gear" and sexism

[deptfordmarmoset]

There's saddles.

Anatomical reasons, the same kind of case as argued in post 299.

 

[User10119]

A ''woman's'' frame will tend to be made with a shorter distance between saddle to stem because most women, when compared to men, have proportionally longer legs and shorter torsos.

Funnily enough...

When I was shopping for my hybrid I decided I liked the look of the Trek Valencia. This was available in a WSD version, but when I compared the geometry the two versions of the bike were actually functionally identical - the differences were the lowered top tube and the saddle. Since I almost never wear skirts that was a non-issue. My inner engineer likes triangles, and the aesthetics of the "men's" version appealed more so I bought that one. The saddle was fine up until I essayed my first 50 miler; this was a rather splendid pootle round (mostly) flat Essex on which I encountered a number of CCers and YACFers for the first time, organised by Aunty Helen, which was thouroughly enjoyable but did highlight the limitations of the OEM saddle (and I suspect the stock "women's" saddle would have also failed that test!) causing me to go at the first available opportunity to my LBS and buy something better, thus increasing the value of the bike by a significant percentage.

 

[Fab Foodie]

On a wider point, can anybody think of any other gendered (or age-related) part of a bicycle? I'm struggling to think of any.

English, compared to many languages, is remarkably ungendered. There are the odd exceptions, of course; some people will refer to things like ships and cars as ''she,'' and it's standard to refer to some connecting parts as male or female by simple analogy. The language simply has no need to attribute gender to ungendered things. So I'm struggling to understand why some people seem to be reacting along the lines of ''First they came for my golliwog, then they came for my mother-in-law, now they're after my granny!'' when it wouldn't be any great loss to pick use another ungendered term.

I’m certain I use my ’deptford’ gear to get me over those tough humpback bridges though....

 

[vickster]

You're missing the most obvious one - the frame. Men don't tend to wear skirts, so they usually ride frames with crossbars. Women often DO wear skirts, and having a frame with a dropped cross bar enables a lady so dressed to ride a bike without providing a show for all the men that may be watching. Whilst there is nothing physically stopping either a man or woman from riding either type of frame assuming it fits them, there is a very good reason why each frame design is described as either Ladies or Gents. I see the PC brigade lately like to use the term "unisex" to describe Ladies frames, but strangely they don't do this with "Gents" ones.... So is it OK for both a man and a woman to ride a Ladies frame, but not OK for a woman to ride a Gents? You do have to wonder at some of the thought processes that go on in some people's heads.

Are you stuck in a Victorian era time warp?

I’ve never worn a skirt cycling, probably not even as a child

I think you’ll actually find it’s ‘mens’ frames that are referred to as unisex, while those designed more with women in mind are referred to as women specific design or similar. All my bike frames were sold as men’s or possibly unisex

 

[Julia9054]

I also say I rode in "my big boy gears" when I've been fairly flying -usually with a tailwind.
I say I have to put my big boy pants on. And I refer to my behaviour at times as "being a girl about it"
At work I play the "girl card" when I don't want to do something that I'm perfectly capable of but can just as easily get a bloke to do for me.
I tell the kids to "grow up" without for one minute implying that grown ups are in some way better than children.
And I have a t-shirt with the slogan "yes I ride like a girl - try to keep up"
Get over it.

Each to her own I suppose.
As a teacher, I would challenge most of those expressions if I heard my pupils using them.

 

[gbb]

Just for a one off...and perhaps pointless...but to get another perspective on the subject, i just asked my non cycling 25 YO DIL what she thought of the term granny gear and it's female origin. Her response...
'Jesus, is that all you have to talk about in there ?'

 

[User10119]

Each to her own I suppose.
As a teacher, I would challenge most of those expressions if I heard my pupils using them.

You would have LOVED the converation I had, as a DBS-checked parent volunteer, with a small group of 9/10/11 year olds as I accompanied 'my' little group around a treasure hunt/map reading/historical site finding adventure across town a couple of weeks ago. One commented that they didn't think it was a good idea to talk about 'girly girls' and 'tomboys' because they're both just girls, and OK. Another was quite cross about the way that some people expect boys to 'man up' and not cry and not be caring. We talked about, among other things, being sporty, and strong, and creative, and caring, and whether or not we liked wearing certain clothes*. The conclusion reached, as we bimbled along the river path, was that it was all very silly because all of those were equally valid ways of being a girl. And equally valid ways of being a boy.

Maybe there's hope, eh.



*with a digression about the dress code options for weddings, including for the bridal party, in which it was concluded that it didn't matter if you lived in jeans/t-shirts/lycra/whatever, it should be up to you whether or not you went for a bow tie/meringue kind of vibe on the day and that it was important for your guests to feel comfortable. Although they did think my little sister had been absolutely fair in saying that while I was welcome to attend her wedding in jeans, she might have to draw the line at PJs. Their surprise (and it was quite surprising to most people) that in the end I went for an actual frock, with a BOW on it, lasted all of about 30 seconds before we got sidetracked into a conversation about the poor treatment of people with mental health issues through the ages.

 

[Julia9054]

[QUOTE 5242650, member: 10119"]Maybe there's hope, eh.[/QUOTE]
Kids generally I find are very good at challenging stereotypes.
Although sometimes not. As I sat waiting for parents to come and see me at year 10 parents evening, I overheard this little exchange. Earnest looking mother with list, trailing teenage son "I see it is Dr Smith next, is that a man or a woman?"
Son rolls eyes "A man, obviously. All doctors are men."
We may have a long way to go.

 

[swansonj]

Are you stuck in a Victorian era time warp?

I’ve never worn a skirt cycling, probably not even as a child

I think you’ll actually find it’s ‘mens’ frames that are referred to as unisex, while those designed more with women in mind are referred to as women specific design or similar. All my bike frames were sold as men’s or possibly unisex

My favourite manufacturer refers to "step through" frames, which is functional, descriptive, and non-gendered. I am not aware that the world has come to an end

 

[bpsmith]

My favourite manufacturer refers to "step through" frames, which is functional, descriptive, and non-gendered. I am not aware that the world has come to an end

Nobody has any issue with that whatsoever.

The world didn’t have trouble surviving when they referred to as being a ladies bike either. That’s the point made by many in this thread.

To summarise what I see as the general feel of this thread. We’re all happy with gender non-specific descriptions. We’re also happy knowing that this was a no brainer from the start.

It’s pointless comments like “I am not aware that the world has come to an end”, like it was a major issue before, that gets people complaining.

 

[Mr Celine]

On a wider point, can anybody think of any other gendered (or age-related) part of a bicycle? I'm struggling to think of any.

Does a tandem have a front-bottom bracket?

 

[Pat "5mph"]

Fact is men and women do have different attributes and therefore not equal. This doesnt make women inferior.

I broadly agree with this statement, but in this case we are asked to consider a word's usage.
So, after reflection, I came to the conclusion that "granny gear" to describe a very low cycling gear is, nowadays, at minimum, incorrect.
My experience is that a lot of 60+ presumed grannies can make it up steep hills without engaging their lowest gear.

"MAMIL" describes the ridiculous sight of (usually visibly overweight) middle age blokes who are generally on an expensive and fancy looking road bike and are trying to kid themselves they are still a fit 25 year old athlete, when in reality they look more like a jelly with legs sticking out the bottom. As a bloke, I probably laugh at them even more than most women do, and the ridicule is fully deserved, IMHO.

It is a cruel term, ime used by men, never heard a woman using it.
I used it once as a joke, did not like myself for doing it so won't use it again.

"The term "sit up and beg" has been in use forever, and describes the upright riding position of a traditional roadster. I use the term, my mum used to use it, everyone knows exactly what it refers to. Why would anyone have a problem with such a description? It isn't even gender-specific!

Because, imagine a former racing cyclist that now has back problems then read the quote below:

It's about perpetuating a set of assumptions about how cycling ought to be experienced.

Women often DO wear skirts, and having a frame with a dropped cross bar enables a lady so dressed to ride a bike without providing a show for all the men that may be watching.

Ahem, we are not in a Jane Austin novel: nowadays most women ride in leggings, jeans, shorts, short dresses with leggings underneath, short skirts with cycling shorts underneath ... you get the picture.

At work I play the "girl card" when I don't want to do something that I'm perfectly capable of but can just as easily get a bloke to do for me.

This, @Sandra6 is a very interesting topic that merits a thread on his own.
If you don't mind, I'd like to expand it further, but not now as I'm getting ready for work. Hope all is good with you and family

 

[classic33]

Nuts now be on the list of words that people can take offence at?

 

[Tin Pot]

Nuts now be on the list of words that people can take offence at?

People take offence whenever they see my nuts, so that makes sense to me.

 

[Tin Pot]

Kids generally I find are very good at challenging stereotypes.
Although sometimes not. As I sat waiting for parents to come and see me at year 10 parents evening, I overheard this little exchange. Earnest looking mother with list, trailing teenage son "I see it is Dr Smith next, is that a man or a woman?"
Son rolls eyes "A man, obviously. All doctors are men."
We may have a long way to go.

I actually believe it’s the opposite. Kids go through several stages of othering as part of their maturation and ultimately becoming an adult. Segregation and prejudice are natural conclusions of a world formed from assumptions and peer pressure, it takes years of education and reason to undo.

Unless you were raised by hippies, in which case you challenge your prejudices from an early age and are comfortable with difference. It’s the psychological scarring that takes years of counselling and therapy to undo.