Over powered bikes that are resticted.

[Electric_Andy]

That wouldn't bother me at all if the top speed was lowered to 10mph. You could do more than that on the flat anyway. Having enough power to get up a hill without pedalling is IMO the real attraction. If I could be propelled up a hill at just 4mph I'd be happy, which is where current legal ebikes slip into uselessness

 

[Alex321]

Important to note that the current regulations were drawn up to standardise regulations across the EU, meaning your e-assist bike would be legal in all EU countries. Motor power and top speed were not the same in all countries.

Worth noting that if we drop out of the current agreed regulations, we'll drop back to the old UK regulations, with the lower top speed.

We wouldn't just "drop out" of the current regulations.

They would be amended - possibly back to the old ones, possibly to something else entirely.

It is almost unknown to just revoke a set of regulations, bringing the previous ones back into force, except where the "new" ones were always intended to be temporary. The fact they were drawn up as a result of an EU directive makes no difference to that.

 

[cougie uk]

That wouldn't bother me at all if the top speed was lowered to 10mph. You could do more than that on the flat anyway. Having enough power to get up a hill without pedalling is IMO the real attraction. If I could be propelled up a hill at just 4mph I'd be happy, which is where current legal ebikes slip into uselessness

I'd be wobbling off at 4mph I think.

 

[classic33]

We wouldn't just "drop out" of the current regulations.

They would be amended - possibly back to the old ones, possibly to something else entirely.

It is almost unknown to just revoke a set of regulations, bringing the previous ones back into force, except where the "new" ones were always intended to be temporary. The fact they were drawn up as a result of an EU directive makes no difference to that.

The current regulations were, as said, done to standardise over a dozen different combinations of motor power and top speed, amongst other things. Including the number of wheels, which in most countries had different power levels and speeds, different again from just two wheels.

 

[Sharky]

I'd be wobbling off at 4mph I think.

There's one hill I climb fairly frequently and slowly and often less than 4mph.
Sometimes my garmin goes into "Auto Pause", I'm going so slowly!

 

[Dadam]

I had the same issue when I first got a legal ebike. You can average 11-15mph on the flat without breaking a sweat. Up a decent hill then you'll have to put in 50-60% of the work you would on a standard bike. I also found that the electric assist on its own was too slow, I got impatient and would end up putting in 95% of the work, hence arriving to work sweaty.

Had I let the motor do all of the work, I would be far slower than someone on a pushbike, but it can be done, just with some extra effort on the hills.

This is why for years I have always said that it would be far easier and attractive to have the laws changed to 500w motor, but still restricted to 15mph before cut-out, as the only times you really need the power is up hills, and the legal power limit at the moment is only beneficial on the flat, where you don't really need it at all

You can't extrapolate your experience with one legal ebike for all legal ebikes. That sounds like my Gain, but very much not my Bosch powered Cube. It's dead easy to stick it in "turbo" mode and blat about at 15mph everywhere even up really steep stuff. I tend not to as I like to get a bit of a workout, unless I'm knackered.

 

[Alex321]

The current regulations were, as said, done to standardise over a dozen different combinations of motor power and top speed, amongst other things. Including the number of wheels, which in most countries had different power levels and speeds, different again from just two wheels.

Yes, I know that.

But we still don't generally just "drop out" of them.

The regulations were implemented in each country in the EU using their own lawmaking systems. Here it was a Statutory Instrument.

Those regulations continue to apply regardless of the original reason for their creation unless and until they are replaced or revoked by later instruments.

 

[the_mikey]

There's nothing stopping people going out and getting their CBT and purchasing a registered and compliant electric moped or motorbike, and getting it insured through an insurance company that provides an actual schedule and certificate, anyone trying to put themselves in the nowhere-land between EAPC and Electric mopeds are not going to find any loopholes that will get them their desired outcome of an easy life riding their ill-conceived motorised bike-shaped object, free from responsibility or accountability.

 

[cougie uk]

There's one hill I climb fairly frequently and slowly and often less than 4mph.
Sometimes my garmin goes into "Auto Pause", I'm going so slowly!

Oh I hate seeing that - a Garmin can be so judgmental !

 

[Mike_P]

There's one hill I climb fairly frequently and slowly and often less than 4mph.
Sometimes my garmin goes into "Auto Pause", I'm going so slowly!

I would get off and walk as it would probably be quicker. Could explain some hills I have wheeled the bike up and still ended up with a Strava time far faster than a number of other users.

 

[Ming the Merciless]

Oh I hate seeing that - a Garmin can be so judgmental !

You can turn auto pause off

 

[Deleted member 26715]

I had the same issue when I first got a legal ebike. You can average 11-15mph on the flat without breaking a sweat. Up a decent hill then you'll have to put in 50-60% of the work you would on a standard bike. I also found that the electric assist on its own was too slow, I got impatient and would end up putting in 95% of the work, hence arriving to work sweaty.

Had I let the motor do all of the work, I would be far slower than someone on a pushbike, but it can be done, just with some extra effort on the hills.

This is why for years I have always said that it would be far easier and attractive to have the laws changed to 500w motor, but still restricted to 15mph before cut-out, as the only times you really need the power is up hills, and the legal power limit at the moment is only beneficial on the flat, where you don't really need it at all

That wouldn't bother me at all if the top speed was lowered to 10mph. You could do more than that on the flat anyway. Having enough power to get up a hill without pedalling is IMO the real attraction. If I could be propelled up a hill at just 4mph I'd be happy, which is where current legal ebikes slip into uselessness

Sorry but that is really confusing, initially you say that the battery assist wasn't enough so had to put in a lot of effort, then you say you'd be happy at 4mph to me they seem in conflict with each other.

 

[Tenkaykev]

That wouldn't bother me at all if the top speed was lowered to 10mph. You could do more than that on the flat anyway. Having enough power to get up a hill without pedalling is IMO the real attraction. If I could be propelled up a hill at just 4mph I'd be happy, which is where current legal ebikes slip into uselessness

To be fair Andy, I think a lot depends on the bike. I purchased an Electric Brompton about a year ago and often ride it unpowered, only switching the power on when I'm knackered or there's a big hill. Shortly after I got it I rode out to a long steep hill and did a set of reps, unpowered, and levels 1,2,3. In level three it was practically effortless. I should add that I'm more of a plodder so 15mph is plenty fast enough unless I'm going downhill.

 

[I like Skol]

Where does this expectation that e-bikes should be able to breeze up hills at 15mph, or more, come from?

I may be misinformed or mistaken, but I always assumed that e-bikes had been allowed to be used under the same rules as a standard person powered bicycle because they enabled less able, less fit, or more elderly people to complete journeys safely at a speed similar to 'normal' cyclists so not really posing any greater risk to the public?

Now I consider myself to be substantially fitter than a typical commuting cyclist so not really 'normal' and quite good at climbing. I'm also 'only' 50 years old so not what I class as elderly and have had fairly steady fitness over the last couple of decades, but I have two hills on my commute which while not what I would call steep certainly slow even me down to around single figures. The first is about 1/2 a mile at 4%'ish and is often done at about 12mph with a massive effort required to get to and maintain 15mph all the way up that results in me cresting the top breathing hard, sweating profusely and feeling stretched. The second is shorter at approx 1/3rd of a mile but a bit steeper at 5% and this often sees me at 9-10mph (or less if I am particularly tired).

As I said, I consider myself a strong rider. I don't train or compete but I would expect most utility cyclists to be a couple of MPH slower than me up these minor hills and we would all be slower if the gradient increased.

Why should an e-bike be any faster than this?

 

[Alex321]

Where does this expectation that e-bikes should be able to breeze up hills at 15mph, or more, come from?

I may be misinformed or mistaken, but I always assumed that e-bikes had been allowed to be used under the same rules as a standard person powered bicycle because they enabled less able, less fit, or more elderly people to complete journeys safely at a speed similar to 'normal' cyclists so not really posing any greater risk to the public?

I would be surprised if any real consideration was given to what a "normal" cyclist can do. I think it was probably more about thinking that 15mph is reasonably safe, so that is what the limit of assistance should be.

Most route planners seem to assume by default that a cyclist will only average around 10mph, which is probably true for most "non-serious" cyclists.

Now I consider myself to be substantially fitter than a typical commuting cyclist so not really 'normal' and quite good at climbing. I'm also 'only' 50 years old so not what I class as elderly and have had fairly steady fitness over the last couple of decades, but I have two hills on my commute which while not what I would call steep certainly slow even me down to around single figures. The first is about 1/2 a mile at 4%'ish and is often done at about 12mph with a massive effort required to get to and maintain 15mph all the way up that results in me cresting the top breathing hard, sweating profusely and feeling stretched. The second is shorter at approx 1/3rd of a mile but a bit steeper at 5% and this often sees me at 9-10mph (or less if I am particularly tired).

As I said, I consider myself a strong rider. I don't train or compete but I would expect most utility cyclists to be a couple of MPH slower than me up these minor hills and we would all be slower if the gradient increased.

Why should an e-bike be any faster than this?

Well that is what a lot of people want one for - so they can go up hills as easily - and quickly - as they can ride on the flat.