Ridden into by another cyclist

[Tynan]

oi! you've already END OFed!

you can't dip back in after that

 

[gambatte]

the way people brake too, their position on the bike etc etc, laods of factors

couldn't agree more

 

[domtyler]

oi! you've already END OFed!

you can't dip back in after that

Sorry but there are a lot of trolls on this thread that are not agreeing with me and not letting me have the last word.

 

[Jacomus-rides-Gen]

Sorry but there are a lot of trolls on this thread that are not agreeing with me and not letting me have the last word.

LOL There be no advantage to engine braking on a vehicle, the sole purpose of which is to conserve momentum!

 

[BentMikey]

weight combined with velocity makes momentum, that's what needs to be stopped

any additional friction due to the weight is unrelated and isn;t going to balanced the additional momentum, the same bike with a fat bloke plus heavy panniers takes longer to stop

ever tried to brake in the car when it's full up with people and luggage, the additional 'friction' isn't going to help you there

as for stopping distance, that doesn't really happen in the London traffic

I'm not sure if you realise that weight has a neutral effect, all else remaining the same:
* More weight makes the bike take longer to stop with the same stopping force.
* More weight increases the stopping force, neutralising the first effect.

I'm not taking into account the factor of doing an endo of course, which might tend to make you right, Tynan, depending on . That's because the limiting factor is usually centre of gravity, not friction or contact patch.

 

[BentMikey]

I afraid weight is a factor with braking.

An alternative view is that a weightless (i.e. inertia-less) bike would also take no force at all to stop. See my post above - weight, all else being the same, cancels out.

If you want to talk about MTB tyres I’m afraid that most normal MTB tyres will still out brake a road bike slick.

Again, both you and ludwig are wrong on this. The limiter for stopping in the dry is centre of gravity issues (i.e. taking stopping to the point of an endo), not tyre friction with the road. That might actually make you right, but not for the reason you're both arguing with. MTBs might win as it's easier to get your weight lower and more to the rear than on a head down/arse up road bike.

As for your argument that knobbly tyres have more traction, LOLOL! It's been proved quite conclusively now that slick tyres are rather a lot more sticky than treated tyres on the road. MTB tyres are designed for traction off road, not on road, and that's why they don't perform as well. Regardless, contact patch size is at most only a second order effect, and thus won't have nearly as much influence on braking as will coefficient of friction and the bike's c-of-g relative to front wheel contact point.

 

[Tynan]

physics tells us that mass combined with velocity produces momentum

that done it needs to be stopped somehow

there's no direct relation between the mass of the bike and the stopping power from the tyres

honest

 

[cupoftea]

Bent

So bent what your saying is that the size of the contact patch doesn't matter?

 

[BentMikey]

Bent

So bent what your saying is that the size of the contact patch doesn't matter?

In a perfect physics world, no, it doesn't matter. In the real world, yes of course it does, but it's of less importance than the main factors, being R and coefficient of friction.

No comment on c-of-g/endo's being the limit on stopping in the dry?

 

[BentMikey]

physics tells us that mass combined with velocity produces momentum

that done it needs to be stopped somehow

there's no direct relation between the mass of the bike and the stopping power from the tyres

honest

Tynan, the bolded part is right, but it's also only half the story. You've forgotten that more weight equals more friction.

 

[Tynan]

and there's no direct relationship between the mass of the bike and 'friction'

posted it about a zillion times now

 

[fossyant]

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Uh, yawn......STILL AT IT ! Off back to sleep.........

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

 

[cupoftea]

Bent

At last you agree, that a wide tyre wil out brake a slimmer one.

I have large slicks on my bike meaning I'll stop before a road bike with small slicks, and that if I hard large MTB tyres I'll still out brake a bike with small skinny tyres.

Yes I agree if you got a 2" slick and put up against a 2.1 knobbly the slick will win but I'm talking about a 700x28 against a 26"x21

My bike is an MTB allowing me to move my Cof G further back than on a road bike

MTB brakes are designed to stop you, road bike brake are designed to control speed, but a whole different agruement and as it's take 8 pages to agree a wide tyre beats a skinny tyre lets not get into it.

 

[Tynan]

all other things being equal yeah?

which they won't

 

[BentMikey]

MTB brakes are designed to stop you, road bike brake are designed to control speed, but a whole different agruement and as it's take 8 pages to agree a wide tyre beats a skinny tyre lets not get into it.

Again, brakes are not the limiting factor, C of G is. It doesn't really matter what brakes you have if they can generate either a skid or an endo.

And I don't agree that it's certain a knobbly MTB bike tyre will outbrake a road tyre. In fact I doubt it very much.